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Posted

So since 2013 I've been using a powerspark points replacement ignition on the Spitfire 1500. I've been VERY happy with it and an advocate for the system as a great alternative to points+condensor due to previous failure of nearly new points causing me issues.

BUT it now seems that this system has quality issues. I replaced the 2013 unit due to damaging the wires - 100% my own fault. But now the replacement has failed in less than a month. (Purchased 5/9/2023, Fitted 11/9/2023, Failed 7/10/2023)

So here's the question, where do I go now with the ignition system? Save up for one like the 123 Ignition, Lumenition or Pertronix ? Go for a DIY system such as mega-jolt? I just wish there was something decent and reliable in the middle ground in terms of price!

The car is "fast road" spec. in terms of engine, but still running on (rebuilt) twin hs4 SU carbs. 

Posted

I might be a lonely voice on this forum but personally I've had very few problems with NOS points and a Distributor Dr condenser. I would have said no problems but we did conk out on the A303 due to a broken LT wire on Sunday afternoon. But very quick to diagnose and rectify. Cracking the points open is  easier than pulling a plug to check for spark.

I know the timing curve is a bit limited but for me I don't see much other reason to go electronic - that other Spitfire that arrived on a flatbed also had a failed electronic ignition apparently. Solved by borrowing a clockwork dissy off someone.

  • Like 1
Posted

always had good experience with Pertronix units. Used them on a lot of cars and our boot and never had any problems with the units. They were expensive compared to some units but you do need to pay for quality. 
Did have intermittent  issues in the GT6 (which I put down to  fuel vaporization, long story) but that was due to not having a good earth connection to the base plate. If that fails  or is faulty then the units will not work. 

Herald is now Megasquirted and uses a Ford wasted spark unit and just works!

mike

  • Like 1
Posted

I have also had good experiences with teh Aldon/Pertronix iunits. Never geard of a failure. And I used one daily for 13 years or so, and I believe it is still going fine in another car 12 years on. But we also had them in our Mini, Herald and another spitfire.  Cheapest source was always https://www.vintageperformance.com/ where they are sent out from within the UK.

Megajolt is a fab product, but seems to be harder to find thesedays. A bit (lot) more effort to fit with a trigger wheel, coilpack and edis required. But fully programmable and timed off the crank. It all helps. I wounder if there is a DIY approach using arduino? That could be right up your street.

 

  • Like 1
Posted

Thanks for the ideas/options all! Clearly more investigation needed. I switched from points to electronic because the new points seemed to be shockingly bad quality/reliability, but now it seems the "cheap" electronic options are just as bad if not worse. I do carry a set of Dizzy Doctor points as my "last resort" back-up. (Along with feeler gauges etc.)

 

Posted

Sam, which distributor did you have problems with, Lucas or Delco? My experience of reproduction Lucas 25D4 points is also not so great, 3000 miles is about all I could get out of a set when I was daily driving my Herald. However, 3000 at the time was the whole year of driving so I decided it was fine. Similar experience from the trip to Mongolia, carried about 10 spare sets, used maybe half of them, found that grease from the cam would disappear quickly when it was hot so keeping on top of it was important or the heel of the points would evaporate away in short order. I have Distributor Dr's cap, condenser and rotor arm but not tried his points for some reason.

As Clive said, maybe electronic ignition is the way to go, only the trigger wheel is hard, everything else seems straight forward. Personally, I'm toying with trying Speeduino (doing ignition only) with the VAG coil pack. However, I also read Nick's son's experiences https://sideways-technologies.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/7107-chriss-mkiv-basket-case-restored-to-glory/&do=findComment&comment=117022. And now I'm not really confident in the robustness of such a solution for the noisy electronics on classic cars. But that could be largely down to the analogue design of the carrier boards more than anything else?

  • Like 1
Posted

One has to have the greatest respect for the opinion on maintenance from such an ultra-marathoner as JF!      But the history of the distributor makes me wonder about the quality of the condensor, rather than the points in the mechanical distributor.      Charles Kettering, who went on to found DELCo, invented the distributor as we know it in 1910 to replace the magneto.  He rapidly found that arcing at the points rapidly eroded them, and introduced the condensor across them, which prolonged their life  from less than  1000 miles to more than  6000.     I've learnt (but do not understand!  I am an electrical numpty!) that when restoring old electrical kit, it is almost always the the condensors on the circuit board that have gone faulty.

So I suggest that it is modern condensors, not modern points that have low quality and a short life.

JOhn

Posted
2 hours ago, JohnD said:

So I suggest that it is modern condensors, not modern points that have low quality and a short life

I think that's probably fair John, I had repeated condenser failures on my old MGB GT before finding out about Distributor Dr. His condensers have served me very well ever since.

However the modern repro points are pretty rubbish - the contacts don't line up properly so the contact area is small and they seem to burn quicker as a result. NOS points or decent quality ones can be found, and don't suffer this issue. 

There's also the rotor arms, which were a problem on the MG's Lucas dissy. Again the Distributor Dr versions solved that. 

Posted

I have a Lucas 45D4, rebuilt by H&H with an appropriate curve for my engine - it runs and dyno's well on both points and points replacement EI. 

@JohnD Pretty sure you are right on the condensor side - I was mostly being lazy in my typing and just saying "points" when I should have been saying "points and condensor set" . 

TBH my set-up makes good power and acceptable MPG "as is" so I'm not really driven by the need for fully mappable - although I am a sucker for shiny technology toys. I'm more concerned with reliable and easy to swap out in a failure situation. 

 

Posted
On 10/12/2023 at 10:15 AM, JumpingFrog said:

I also read Nick's son's experiences

We did find Speeduino trickier than my previous MS experience. However, to up date on this, early last year he swapped the hall type crank position sensor for a VR one in preparation for the Sigma engine swap (still pending). This involved an extra board in the ECU. Car is transformed. Noise issues gone, making a remap possible, even necessary. Car now running best ever.

On the OP, I’ve had good results with the Alton/Pertronix in the past. More recently I put the Simon BBC/Powerspark on the GT6 and it’s improved it. Hasn’t blown up yet. I do carry the parts to refit points though.

I have a theory that they don’t like voltage spikes and die on cars with dodgy alternators.

Dizzyless programmable systems with coil packs are the ultimate, but at significantly higher cost and effort. If you do alot of miles then could actually pay back as will save fuel if properly mapped in the cruise areas.

Posted

Hello 

           I found Megajolt to work very well on My Spitfire and well worth the effot of fitting! you can even run two maps at the touch of a switch before I went to ITB's EFI with Microsquirt

I worked very well on Brother in laws TR6 before the Pr**t sold it (his wife did not like it? Wrong wife?)

Roger

  • Like 2
Posted (edited)

My two cents are that the megajolt makes my engine run really well.  However I have a couple of issues which are mainly down to me doing it on the cheap.

I have an old MJlite and I'm not 100% certain what firmware it's running and have never managed to connect a pc to it.  This may well be my own fault.  It came mapped for a spitfire with very similar mods to mine and runs really nicely, so PC connection is not top of my list of spitfire jobs.

I had my rev counter slowly die.  It ran intermittantly then just stopped. I suspect due to higher voltage signal from the MJ - but this isn't actually backed up.  it might just be coincidence. - Edit just seen theres a tacho driver you can buy from megajolt (http://trigger-wheels.com/store/contents/en-uk/p129.html).  This is probably what I need to make this work, assuming I haven't burned out some component inside it.

To be clear.  I'd absolutely use megajolt again, and found the installation easier than expected.

Edited by egret
  • Like 1
  • 1 month later...
Posted

Hey there! Sounds like you've had a good run with the Powerspark system until recently. Dealing with ignition system issues can be a pain, especially after having a reliable setup for so long.

Considering your situation, you've got a few options to explore. The 123 Ignition, Lumenition, and Pertronix systems are known for their quality and reliability, but they can be a bit pricey. They might be a solid investment if you're looking for something dependable and ready-made.

On the other hand, if you're into some DIY action, the Mega-Jolt could be an interesting route to take. It might require a bit more tinkering, but some folks find it rewarding and cost-effective.

Finding that middle ground between price and reliability can be tricky, but it's worth hunting around and maybe seeking advice from other enthusiasts who've dealt with similar setups for their Spitfire 1500.

Your car's engine specs sound sweet, by the way—running on rebuilt twin HS4 SU carbs must make for a fun ride!

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