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Hi folks! Been a while since I've been around these parts. Need to make sure to drop by more often!

So...err...I may have bought another thing. You can never have too many projects, right? That's how the saying goes...

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...back at our place, after an hourish drive back from Midhurst.

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It's a mk1 Triumph 2000 that was pulled out of a shed a couple of years back but someone in Club Triumph. Here it was when it was found:

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From what I've heard, the plan was to strip it for parts but on closer inspection the actual structure of the car is pretty solid. So instead the chap clearcoated over the rust and did some recommissioning. Not sure which of the POs did the engine work, but it's now got a 2500TC engine on carbs in it.

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The chap I bought it from had a bit of tuning work done and it rolling roaded at 113bhp/152b-ft which isn't bad at all really, considering the graph stopped at 4100rpm. However, that was without any air filters on. From mucking about with bikes I know SU-style carbs are really sensitive to pressure changes ahead of the venturi, and although it pulled nicely at full chat it was pretty hesitant on part throttle. I can't see anything in the receipt for tuning that mentions new needles so I'm assuming they haven't been changed, meaning it's probably running a bit lean low down. For now I've stuck the filters back on, which has improved the low-speed running immensely but it now won't really pull past 3000rpm. Fine for pottering around, and hopefully a bit safer, but will need fixing.

We've had a quick check over for bits to fix before I headed over to the GF's in Margate (about an hour and a half drive). First of which was that the fuel pipe to the rear carb was chafing on the strut tower so put some old fuel ine around it in the absence of the right sized copper pipe to make another.

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Also fixed the wipers by crimping up the terminals up a bit (they're rubbish btw), got the lights working through the same method (they're catastrophic), and tightened up the front OS strut top nut as it wasn't even finger tight! :S quite nice to work on really, and my mate's 106 was short enough I could even poke the nose in the garage to do it! Luxury.

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The plan is for now to drive it about, tinkering with bits to get it running alright and sorting little bits and pieces ike wrapping up the snakes-nest of loose wires all 60s car designers thought was acceptable. The rust on the outside is clearcoated, but everything else is just open so I'll try and exorcise it piecemeal so it won't fall apart before its time comes on the project rota.

Then, the ultimate plan will be...

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I happen to have a 4.0l AJ6 and 5-speed that have come out of the XJ40, looking for a home. Looks like it'll fit...just :D

Edited by BiTurbo228
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Having driven the car about a bit I've identified a few problems. 

It's probably got a slow drain somewhere, and it's definitely not charging properly either. Now that I've paid attention in the dark the ignition light is on faintly as you're driving along, and gets brighter at idle.

Poked around with the wiring and found this...

https://youtu.be/WFNzCfbYq9c

That's not going to help!

Replaced that and sorted the battery clamp end a bit better... 

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...which improved things, but you could still discharge the battery with the lights on. Some more poking around showed that the aux belt was as loose as anything so nipped that up. Again this improved things, but still not quite fixed yet. 

Had a quick look around the parts fitted to the engine. Looks like the alternator's already been upgraded to an A127 which should put out 45amps which is plenty.

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However, the wire feeding it is definitely on the thin side and snakes all the way around the other side of the engine bay on its path back to the battery. Made up a second wire from the other spade terminal directly to the positive post on the starter solenoid. 

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It always surprises me how thin of a wire you can use over short distances. This is about double the thickness required to have a 2% voltage drop at 45A over this distance. Too used to battery relocations where the wire snakes along for a couple of meters!

Haven't tested it yet, but if it still doesn't charge I'll suspect the alternator next...

Also, I've discovered it has a 45d6 distributor. Will probably run that for a while, but will keep the PI one from the Spit engine to hand for a future upgrade.

Oh also, I've discovered it has a rocker oil feed (the braided line at the back of the engine here):

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I'm sure everyone here knows this, but these wonderful things rob oil from the main gallery feeding the slightly marginal 4-bearing crank and put it in the head which tends to be fine. Not really a good idea unless you have terribly sludged up oilways in the head, at which point cleaning those out would still be a better idea. That needs to go sometime soon.

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9 hours ago, BiTurbo228 said:

I'm sure everyone here knows this, but these wonderful things rob oil from the main gallery feeding the slightly marginal 4-bearing crank and put it in the head which tends to be fine. Not really a good idea unless you have terribly sludged up oilways in the head, at which point cleaning those out would still be a better idea. That needs to go sometime soon.

Might be worth pulling the top connection off, and checking for an orifice? This was a "tuning" upgrade which (as you say) bypassed blocked oilways. However the more enlightened fitters of these also fitted an orifice to reduce flow, particularly if an engine rebuild was not immediately desired. If an orifice isn't fitted, I would consider fitting one. Particularly if it makes the difference between having rebuild the engine before fitting the Jag beast, or not having to rebuild!

Phil

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Hello BiTurbo,

I would not agree with your view that an extra oil feed to the cylinder head does necessarily starve the crank bearings. This is only true if the oil supply is very marginal as there should always be an excess of oil supply to that required to keep the engine properly lubricated. (The excess being diverted by the pressure relief valve, which is actually a pressure control valve)

I don't advocate it's use but it has been maligned unfairly in my view. People have had problems but as I say that can only be due to marginal oil systems. An engine in good condition should not suffer.

Alec

 

 

 

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Alec,

As all kno, I am the Bringer of HellFire to Ye Spawnne of Ye Deville that is the cylinderhead external oil feed.   Yea, brothers and sisters!   Bow down in shame for fitting it!  But in all fairness, you are entitled to your opinion, you Beelzebubbe Worshipper!   

My opinion is based on my experience, when as a foolish virgin, I did fit the Cursed Feed.   A succession of main and big end failures followed, until YEA! I SAW THE LIGHT!     SAVED, SAVED FOR THE GLORY!   Never had one since I stopped fitting it, and I race the damn things.

A way of fitting one with less risk is to note the oil pressure without it, fit the external and note the pressure drop.   Now fit orifices (aka restrictors) in the line until the pressure returns to the original value.    I've not done this (I'd rather BOIL IN THE PITS OF HELL!) but read of others doing this and getting down to an ID of less than 1 mm!     Which rather takes the gloss off "improving" the upper oilflow.    Little is needed as the pulsed, metered arrangement provided by  Triumph shows.

 

 

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The thing with these is that, as with most things in life, it depends.

Bottom line is that when everything else is right, they are not needed.  At all.  The metered supply provided by the rear cam bearing is adequate.  As Triumph designers intended.

If fitted to an engine with healthy rockers and shaft it will do no great harm as the tight oil tolerances between will serve to restrict flow, meaning that it won't rob the bottom end and it won't flood the rocker cover causing oil to go down the unsealed guides and be burnt.

However,  if fitted where the rockers and shaft are already worn, and no restrictive orifice is installed, then problems start to arise.  Typically just excessive oil burning due to excess oil going down the guides on an otherwise healthy engine.  But imagine the scenario where an unrestricted external feed is slapped on a tired old lump whose oil light already flickers at hot idle and whose front rockers have started to squeak due to lack of oil because all the oil going to the top is falling out of the huge gaps at the back.......  Here the balance may be fatally tipped as the already diminished oil supply is diverted almost entirely unrestricted to the top......  knock knock knock.........

Whether they are needed for aftermarket roller-rockers is whole new can of worms.....

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Yeah I'm of the 'superfluous on a good engine, harmful on a bad one' point of view. I can see the logic behind them, and how they could possibly be positive in some cases (sludge blocking head oil ways but not anywhere else), but think those cases are highly unlikely and avoidable with half decent maintenance. 

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Nick, 

If it wasn't for the fact that I understand your point, how "the scenario where an unrestricted external feed is slapped on a tired old lump whose oil light already flickers at hot idle and whose front rockers have started to squeak due to lack of oil because all the oil going to the top is falling out of the huge gaps at the back" reflects on the early engines I built might upset me!   But I was still learning, and I did stress them to the max on track.     Until a few years ago, I had one, without the external of course, that I had used for ten years.     It did finally expire, I've experimented with 2L and gone back to 2.5.  But never an external oil supply.

I'm sure that the inspiration was the Kastner 'Octopus' that optimised main bearing supply, but that was carefully engineered, while the external supply as sold by the usual suspects was just an opportunity for failure.

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Yeah I'm not normally one for the rat look either, but I do rather like this.

I think I'm coming to the realisation that this car really is rather rusty! It looks okayish from the outside, and there aren't any gaping rot holes I've found yet, but there's patchy rust showing through paint pretty much everywhere you look. It's definitely destined for a full resto at some point soonish, at which point it'll be tricky to keep the rat look on the outside.

I'm also thinking that I really like these in darker colours. It'll be a shame to lose the patina, but I'm not convinced the clearcoating will protect it properly. Still undecided on that front though...

As for updates, I've fitted the Pipercross and made a fuel transfer pipe that clears it.

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Jsut disturbing the rubber pipes on the end of the transfer pipe caused them to spring a leak so just as well we discovered that before it started on the motorway or something like that! All replaced with new stuff now, but I'll have a look around at the other rubber lines on the car.

Also, we've been trying to wire up the tacho to not a great deal of success. We've tried a couple of different permutations as the info on how to wire them up online is very confusing!

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What we wound up with was a switched positive on the big tab, earth on the negative, trigger feed from the negative side of the coil on the exposed bullet connector and another switched positive into the covered bullet connector.

No dice on either of the two tachos I've got. We've tried switching the two signal lines around to no real effect on either.

I have, however, noticed that the car revs a bit worse with the tacho connected so I'm wondering if both are shorted across the signal feed. The only time we've had any life out of either was during a brief flirtation with attaching the coil feed to the big positive spade terminal, at which point we had a little needle movement but it ran catastrophically.

Oh, and there's also a rather ominous tappy tap from the engine at idle. It still makes good oil pressure which is reassuring, and I can't feel any movement in the crank when you press the clutch in and out so I'm hoping the thrust washers are ok.

On the positive side it seems to be charging properly! See what I did there... ;)

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Already replied on RR forum, but for sake of completeness.....

If you look at the front of the tacho I think you’ll find it has “RVI” written on it, meaning it’s the earlier current sensing one.

Your switched power to the spade is correct. The two bullets are linked inside by a short wire that makes a single turn though a pickup coil. Externally one needs to be connected to switched power and the other is connected to coil positive as the sole ignition supply to the coil. Basically the tacho in series with the coil.

The great thing about this type of tacho is they work just the same with a modern wasted spark coil pack provided you connect the pack supply through it as the sense the current variations in the coil supply and don't care how the coil is triggered.

To add: The later style tacho will have "RVC" somewhere on the front.  These are voltage sensing type and need a single wire from the coil -ve terminal.  They sense the voltage spike (back emf) produced by field collapse.  They work great on points ignition and usually work ok on conventional electronic ignition but can be awkward with coilpack systems as their input is designed to cope with up to 40v spikes meaning that tidy 5v or even 12v square waves don't trigger them and amplification is needed.  They do vary a bit.  Some will work from the MJL tach out, some not (or only at low rpm).  Never found one that will work from the EDIS diagnostic/tach out.

Also, I'm not surprised the car runs less well with the tach connected the way you have it.  You basically have 12v on both sides of the coil...... so I'm a bit surprised it runs at all!

 

 

Great doc link btw

https://www.triumphclub.co.nz/wp-content/gallery/pdfs/Smiths.pdf

Those NZ guys do good work!

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Thanks that's sorted it out! Now have a working tacho :)

Unfortunately I think my bungled initial wiring fritzed something in the ignition as it was breaking up over 2000rpm (sounds like ignition letting go, and the rpm on the tacho drop while you can tell the revs rise so I figure it's getting fewer signal pulses).

I've swapped the coil for another one I had lying around which has improved it, although it now breaks up over 3500rpm so perhaps it's a Spitfire coil of some variety (or perhaps one of my mate's MG Midget ones).

The question is I suppose whether to just replace the coil and keep driving or start putting something together for electronic ignition. Nick, was it yourself with the EDIS6 setup? Perhaps something mappable given that I've got a couple of different cams knocking around that would be interesting to use...

Dead useful to know about the electronic ignition as well. So do you connect the tacho in series with the coil pack supply, or in parallel to get it to work?

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