Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Here is the culmination of many hours of research and time at the wreckers.

 I hate to see people spend hard cash on unnecessarily expensive custom axles. 

The bare axles from a BG series Mazda Familia 323 1.6 SOHC same as Ford laser KF or BW mazda wagon. They fit Subaru 22 spline inner, and the mgf hub. The length is such that it places the inner joint yoke quite centrally in the cup (there is more than enough plunge available). I will measure for you in the morning, length and diameter. These, I expect, would take similar power outputs to the rover shafts, possibly more as many have turbocharged these cars without beefing the axles and I cant find reports of breaking no matter how long I spend scouring mazda/ford forums. 

But also-

There is a heavier duty version from a BH 1.6 DOHC mazda / KH Ford Laser with a 22mm diameter and just marginally longer. Sits the yoke slightly further back in the cup, but again, plenty of plunge available in my bench test rig. Again, fits the mgf cv and same mazda cv as earlier.

It does not appear to matter Auto or Manual. Short side axles obviously. 1.8 engined cars do not fit. 1.5 engined cars have the wrong spine. Must be 1.6 SOHC or DOHC.

Both types of axle will work with Subaru diffs- I have not tested with triumph diffs but would expect they will be too long.

Incidentally, both axles fit a nissan march/micra k11 1.3 cv- however, this may prove to be a little too lightweight for most applications except fairly standard 4 cylinder cars. But the beauty is you can use the micra/march bearing and the uprights require only the through bore and circlips. 4x100 pcd. 

These axles are so cheap in the Antipodes, it would be worth those already with Subaru diffs running rover shafts swapping and passing on their axles to others keeping the triumph diff. 

I am using the matching mazda cvs as I want a 4x100 pcd to match my front suspension, the machining is the same (more or less) as the mgf cv / bearing conversion and fits well in the upright. I use a vw/mazda bearing with roughly the same dimensions as the mgf, but cheaper and probably more available. Has a 39mm ID, so I machine  1mm off the Mazda drive flange spigot. All unnecessary with the Mgf cv/bearing conversion however. Will drag out part number and measurements in the morning. 

I have several sets of the BG bare axles on the shelf- and can get vast numbers fairly cheap. These are as common as muck in NZ and Oz. Perhaps less common your side of the world, but available new still. They cost me next to nothing but time to remove them and I am in NZ so, well, postage. But if you want some, make me an offer. The 22mm later versions are a little harder to find and generally cost me a little more as I have to get them from a different wrecker, but again, make an offer. I only need a pair for my car!

Plenty of pics on my Facebook site- I think it links in my signature. Again, I'll update this tomorrow. 

Go forth and modify!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll add- 

The 22 spline inner joint yoke is exactly the same part between mazda bg/bh, nissan micra 1.3 and subaru. 

I cant find any measurable difference between these parts, so if you wanted to run 4x100 rear pcd, you could simply machine your upright to take the mazda cv, machine 1mm off the mazda drive flange bearing spigot end and take the inner joint cup off the end of a new, fully built up mazda cv axle, and stick it into the subaru inner joint cup. Easy. 

There is also quite a bit of provision to redrill the mazda drive flanges to the 95.25 PCD, which would make life easier in the future as mgf CVS run dry. Because the same cv was used for about 20 years and through various mazda/ford models, it's likely to be reproduced for some time yet. 

Pics below of the BG 21mm diameter axle in a micra cv. I'll add more pics as I can.

My mate Chris Riley has come up with a conversion which utilizes a built up modern OE axle in its entirety to get to a 114x4 pcd matching the triumph saloon cars- a good option if running saloon brakes up front. I'll direct him to this thread to explain. 

FB_IMG_1610369219249.jpg.e307ad227e3efb6f94f2a9dccb40c082.jpg

FB_IMG_1610369227234.jpg

FB_IMG_1610369231582.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Arlo,

Appreciate the very detailed info.  Very useful to those in NZ, Oz, probably the US and RSA.  Not sure quite so useful Europe (or UK anyway) as the BG was always fairly rare here and most have been eaten by tinworm by now.  Likewise, the Laser wasn't sold here as we had the Euro Escort.  I will be looking in scrapyards (and on ebay) with new eyes from now on though!

Possibly the BH availability is a little better.  Also may be significant that Focus I and Fiesta 5 ( both Euro) outer CVs fit the MGF hub, though so far I've not found a lobro that will fit on the inner end of the shaft (Focus is way too long anyway)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Made a bit of a boo above- should be Laser KJ with the 22mm diameter axle. Cant edit to change.

 

Not a lobro, but the NA Mx5 uses a 22 inner spline pot joint that may work with the fiesta - or even mgf axle for that matter. Of course I have neither to actually check that, and whether the pot joint will clear the chassis rail with a Triumph diff is another story altogether!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Damn! have paid for my custom shafts... I can only console myself with the fact they are 24mm 4340 48HRC. 

Appreciate the effort it takes to research, find and prove these things. As Nick has pointed out I think these 22mm Mazda BH 1.6 DOHC will be quite rare here in the UK. I'm sure purchasing and shipping from you would still be much cheaper :wallbash:

Could you possibly give me some further consolation by an overall length of the BG axle, as you say it runs central to the Subaru cv cup and I've specified 415mm for mine?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Fuelish,

Bugger about the ordering- yes, I can guarantee it would have been cheaper! Like you say however, 24mm should be unbreakable no matter what you throw at it. I think you should be alright with you length, there is an awful lot of plunge available. It kinda comes down to where your cv sits in the upright, and mine is a ford cv that is a little different to the mgf. I know the mazda/ford shafts will work with the mgf cv as the length is slightly longer than the rover 100 ones which are known to work and I have physically slotted it into the mgf cv I have on the bench. 

I'm slightly off with some of my data in the above posts (late night typing)

Ford KJ / KL and BH mazda 1.6 dohc b series engine auto or manual. 427mm length, 23.0mm diameter. 22 spline both end. 

Mazda BG, BW, probably BF? Ford KH KF anything with 1.6 Sohc b series engine auto or manual. 420mm length, 21.6mm diameter. 22 spline both ends. 

Shafts are available in built up form quite readily and cheaply online from amazon etc. 

Only 1.6 mazda b series engined axles fit as far as I am aware. 1.5, 1.3 e series engined cars are quite similar, but have 21 splines instead- Incidentally- threre is a 21 spline subaru inner joint available, but it is considered quite weak amongst the subaru community. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/21/2021 at 7:02 AM, rustbuckit2011 said:

mine is a ford cv that is a little different to the mgf

Ah, the devil is in the detail, Ford cv's vs MGTF. 

The R100 shafts are 404mm iaw NJ. The guy in the US that is making my shafts uses Euro Escort cv's in Roto uprights and he makes his shafts approx. 17" (please do not use this as a factual figure) but, this ties in with your findings with Mazda 323 1.6 BH at 427mm.

From SteveJM comments and zetecspit I'm hoping mine at 415mm with MGFT cv's will be correct. They are being made so time will tell!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Well, here are my USA made shafts. Subaru inner MGTF outer and 415mm long. Not had a chance to try them as in the queue to have my rear hubs machined, that's another story because trying MGTF with discs first, under 15" wheels. The backup is the original rotoflex as per NJ.

USA shafts.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...