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Another ask for advice/recommendations :rolleyes:...

Front brakes - so my existing brakes are fairly non-existent which leads to to look at options for any improvement.

From a search I've come across two options:

1. Canley's brake kit: https://www.canleyclassics.com/?product=big-brake-kit

2. Wilwood brake kits:

https://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=562_563_574&products_id=3989

 https://www.motorsport-tools.com/wilwood-triumph-gt6-brake-kit-powerlite-4-pot-calipers-247mm-discs-130298.html

One concerning item with 2. is the need to machine the hubs by 4mm (for clearance I presume???)

Any experience of either kit and/or other options available in 2020?

 

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Davey,

Brakes that are "non-existent" are faulty brakes, not inadequate or poorly designed brakes.   The standard (!) Triumph system is capable of locking up the wheels from almost any speed, when properly maintained.   They do fade, if they have mountain passes or motorsport inflicted on them, but minor changes such as 'hotter' pads or more major such as vented discs will cure that.     

Rather than spend a lot of money on new 'improved' kit, tell about your existing brakes, and maybe we can point you towards ways to get them back to working properly!

John

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ok you got me, so they are existent (see attached) and I know I can get refurbished ones but since this is required and engineering has moved on in the last 50 years I'm interested to know what options I have available or if anyone has had any success. The originals are also rather heavy :gym:.

 

IMG_0216.JPG

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Hmmmmmmmmm!   I see your point!   

The dedicated racer tries to save every gramme, but unless you're racing will even a kilogramme make a difference?   Working Triumph brakes are very good -  I'd review rebuilt originals vs the modern equivalents for cost, as the latter will not function better.

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I looked at up-rating my calipers several years back when I swapped my Spitfire front suspension for bigger salvaged GT6 parts I found on e-bay. Decided to just rebuild the 16’s that came with my salvaged GT6 parts for the experience.  Rebuilding the calipers gave me the option to up-rate the pistons to stainless that you will not get with most purchased rebuilds. The calipers I rebuilt were in bad shape and the rebuild was awful, your brake caliper looks far worse!!!! 

Problem I saw with the Wilwood kits available for GT6 years ago was they used the Powerlite caliper that does not have dust-seals on the pistons. Does not look like anything has changed in kit offerings years later even though Wilwood has come out with several m16 models like the Dynalite that have dust-seals. Would probably have tried the Dynalite but the model was not available in the USA for several years .

Interested if anyone has actually used the Powerlite calipers, and if they do need more than regular cleaning/lubricating with no dust-seals

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I did think about alternatives, but plumped for the std type16 calipers, spaced, and Capri vented discs. Used with NoS asbestos pads, and DS2500 pads, I have never had an issue, even hooning down Stelvio when a certain stag lost all brakes and the grease out his front wheel bearings. 

The alternatives all end up being complex and often requiring faffing about. 

Send yours off for refurb, possibly get them spaced if you intend driving like a hooligan, so you could then use the capri discs. 

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I’m with Clive on this. Not a lot wrong with the Type 16 as a base.

Not sure the Canley big brake set is still available. Anyway, the only set I’ve seen in action was having persistent problems needing rebleeding very few hundred miles which didn’t inspire great confidence.

I would avoid anything that doesn’t have proper external dust/weather gaiters. Unless you restrict yourself to dry weather only you will get issues with corrosion and sticking. This includes ones with a secondary seal in the bore - I know some of the OE Lockheed stuff is like this (T2000,Stag, MGB) - they have lots of problems with sticking pistons too.

Hi-Spec used to do an alloy 4pot Austin Princess copy, but no longer listed on their website - might be worth enquiring......

If you decide to stick with the type 16s, spaced or otherwise, DO NOT buy the temptingly cheap new reproduction. They are crap and will leave you with a long pedal for ever.  Instead, do refurb your originals either using kits from Bigg Red (they do stainless pistons too) or have them do it.

Vitesse currently has spaced type 16Ps with Capri 2.8 vented discs and M1144 pads. These survived a dry weather track day, so better the long standing previous best of standard everything with Ferodo DS2500 pads that I’ve been running for decades.

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  • 3 months later...

Have you seen these? https://britishclassiccarparts.com/collections/triumph

BCC brakes - I came across them today. A tad more expensive perhaps than some other options, but I was quite impressed at how much R&D they do and care they take to make sure they work for specific classic models.

Being able to buy upgraded calipers that actually fit instead of having to put stupid big wheels on is a huge attraction.

Once my car is back on the road I think I'll reward their investment in R&D for our cars with a purchase of my own.

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Hmm..... nice looking but really quite pricey.  Looks like the dust seals are internal - not ideal for winter use.  Also curious as to what pad pattern they use as they only appear to offer EBC product and I'm really not a fan.

As a Spitfire owner you'd really be wanting what is effectively a GT6 caliper with the Spitfire mounting lugs for use with a GT6 disc.... maybe that's what they are.

Refurbed GT6 parts would likely work just as well, though heavier.

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I was thinking that regarding the pads. They may sell enough to justify a custom order from EBC, but I will ask.

I would much prefer Mintex 1144 as I found the bite and general performance with those pads was a lot better than the EBC Greenstuff I replaced.

The weight of GT6 stuff puts me off, that and having to change other parts too.

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p.s. if you disable popups they appear to be giving a 10% off code with a newsletter signup.

It's still a lot of money to spend relative to the value of these cars, but we always moan about how companies don't invest in R&D and keep selling us cheap chinese copies of parts that don't fit...

Another vote from me for rebuilding with stainless pistons though if looking to use original calipers. Despite having a rebuild and being only used with silicone fluid thereafter, my caliper pistons corroded quite badly over 10 years. Silicone fluid isn't hygroscopic, but all that means is that the water instead sits at the bottom of the brake pipe as opposed to mixing with the fluid. Winter lay-ups in the past meant the water didn't boil off and I only realised when the pistons started sticking quite badly.

The stainless pistons worked a treat, but needed a lot of polishing first to remove the machining marks.

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11 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

Hmm..... nice looking but really quite pricey.  Looks like the dust seals are internal - not ideal for winter use.  Also curious as to what pad pattern they use as they only appear to offer EBC product and I'm really not a fan.

As a Spitfire owner you'd really be wanting what is effectively a GT6 caliper with the Spitfire mounting lugs for use with a GT6 disc.... maybe that's what they are.

Refurbed GT6 parts would likely work just as well, though heavier.

That would be a ford M16 caliper then. I "think" the GT6 disc may need a slight reduction in diameter to fit, Dave P mentioned it sometime ago, and reckoned it was bizarre nobody had caught onto using ford calipers. 

As an aside, sometime ago (several years I think) there was a post about the BCC brakes not fitting. It may have been under a 13" wheel? And the company had no idea why etc. So  their R+D may have actually done some work since? I would make some proper enquiries and ask direct questions before parting with any cash. 

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On 12/30/2020 at 9:49 AM, Mole42 said:

The comparison between Mintex 1144 and Greenstuff is like comparing butter and margarine. They both do the job, but one does it a lot better than the other!

I misunderstood this post and put butter on my Mintex brake pads. 

  • Haha 1
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I have used std GT6 brakes on my mk2 for over 30 years, no problem at all. Using Greenstuff pads and again no problem at all. Take of the dust shields from the back, this and a set of Revolution wheels resulted in no problems with fade.

 

As many have stated, properly maintained parts has resulted in decent brakes for my car which is used for Track Days and Autosolos. I'd stick with standard.

 

I have a set of Wilwood calipers and vented discs on my mk1 Saloon....brilliant for passes in the Alps, once the pads get to temperature...but for normal road use, maybe not the best option.

 

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Surprised you find the Greenstuff ok Tim.  I did try a set on the Vitesse before I discovered M1144s and they were no better than the greased-cardboard motor factors ones I had before them.  Truly ring-twitching - I wasn't strong enough to lock the wheels.  Do you have a servo?

Have you ever tried the Mintex ones?

I finished up with Stag brakes on the front of my PI with M1144 pads and they were excellent in daily use though I never really got to challenge them seriously.  Apart from hooning across Kent/Sussex in the middle of the night on an HCR, late for control....... bloody bypasses.... empty dual carriageway with roundabouts every 1/2 mile......

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Hi Nick,

I have some 1144s to try, will do when the Greenstuff are worn out. Seriously though, I have found the G'stuff to be fine.

Still think the main problem with GT6 brakes is that not enough air gets to them, hence the removal of backplates and breathable wheels.

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Hi Tim

+1 for the Mintex M1144, which I have had on my Mk2 for many years. Stop and last very well indeed! I have very breathable Revolutions.

I have also managed to find M1144s for my Honda S2K and will fit them when I change the disks.

Ian

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think the temp your brakes will normally operate at effects your brake pad choice. I recently changed from a set of new EBC to new Hawk because the Hawk have a good bite when cold and I usually only cruise around town like the old man I am. A different driving style may require a different pad material. Wilwood make a complete kit for TR6, TR4. there are enough similarities in the front brakes to small chassis that many of the components would extrapolate, The rotor use an aluminum bell so an other rotor diameter could be bolted on. ttps://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdFront?itemno=140-15912-DR&year=1974&make=Triumph&model=TR6&option=Base

 

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