are triumph engines really this rough?

[JumpingFrog]

Oil cooler without thermostat is just going to stop the oil getting hot, and give you sludge instead. If you do decide to fit the cooler, I'd say a thermostat is essential. I'd also suggest that oil pressure at idle is a fairly meaningless figure, especially if your idle is set lowish. What kind of pressure are you seeing around say 3000 rpm?

Happy to see progress is being made, already sounds a lot better after your tweaks. By the way, one massive source of noise in a Herald/Vitesse are the windows rattling if the runners are worn out. As you say, the construction does lend to them being not being the most quiet of cars...

[yorkshire_spam]

21 minutes ago, Steve 13-60 said:

Folk recon a cooler isnt really needed, but I'm concerned about driving on the autobahn at 60mph for hours on end.

I'd say on a 1500 a cooler is essential if the car is going to do long hard miles. Not to boost oil pressure on new oil, but to prevent the oil over-heating and degrading quickly. On a 1300? No big deal, on a 1500 - essential, unless the car is a "pottering to a concourse show" type classic.

[Steve 13-60]

31 minutes ago, JumpingFrog said:

Oil cooler without thermostat is just going to stop the oil getting hot, and give you sludge instead. If you do decide to fit the cooler, I'd say a thermostat is essential. I'd also suggest that oil pressure at idle is a fairly meaningless figure, especially if your idle is set lowish. What kind of pressure are you seeing around say 3000 rpm?

Happy to see progress is being made, already sounds a lot better after your tweaks. By the way, one massive source of noise in a Herald/Vitesse are the windows rattling if the runners are worn out. As you say, the construction does lend to them being not being the most quiet of cars...

At 3000 its around 40 psi, not too bad TBH.

But the task for that engine is just to get me to berlin. Then it'll be a door stop!

Done the window seals, but still plenty of rattles to cure. But that'll be on assembly after the body off resto.  Done as much welding as I can here but need to get it in my garage for the rest....like inner rear wheel arches.

[Nick Jones]

37 minutes ago, yorkshire_spam said:

I'd say on a 1500 a cooler is essential if the car is going to do long hard miles. Not to boost oil pressure on new oil, but to prevent the oil over-heating and degrading quickly. On a 1300? No big deal, on a 1500 - essential, unless the car is a "pottering to a concourse show" type classic.

This...... I broke a couple proving it.

[Steve 13-60]

Berlin or bust!

[Escadrille Ecosse]

Good luck and bon voyage!

[Nick Jones]

May the force be with you. Longish drive to Berlin!

[yorkshire_spam]

Gute Reise!

[Steve 13-60]

Arrived at Harwich, nice uneventful drive, the herald behaved lovely. Just pootled along at a steady 50.

[Steve 13-60]

Made it! 30 hours and 640 miles door to door!

But no probs at all, even the autobahn stasi ignored us.

And the camper did 35mpg towing....probably better than the herald under its own power....diesel Herald anyone?

[Nick Jones]

Well done 

Impressive mpg from the van. A healthy Herald should be able to match that...... just about.

[sparky_spit]

Well done from me too.  And of course well done to the Herald; its wheel bearings, diff, prop and half the gearbox obviously survived okay.

[Steve 13-60]

27 minutes ago, sparky_spit said:

Well done from me too.  And of course well done to the Herald; its wheel bearings, diff, prop and half the gearbox obviously survived okay.

I did notice the gearbox tunnel was warm when we arrived, but it didnt make any complaints when I drove it under the carport.

[Steve 13-60]

The autobahn near here is unrestricted

Wonder if we can get the Herald to hit the 155mph limiter!

[Nick Jones]

Hmm...... if you’ve towed it 800 miles with the prop attached........ the gearbox may well be toast. Happy to be proved wrong though.

[Jdowson]

We have towed our cars behind our motor home without any problems and have travelled all over the country. For the 2018 Rbbr, we towed my triumph 2000 to near the start (200 miles) then did the rbbr before returning  home behind the motor home, didn't have any problems.

[JohnD]

14 minutes ago, Steve 13-60 said:

I did notice the gearbox tunnel was warm when we arrived, but it didnt make any complaints when I drove it under the carport.

This is on a towed car?   People worry about heat from the gearbox and spend a lot on heat insulation of the gearbox cover, when there should be almost no heat from that.  The heat they are concerned about is from the radiator, and there is none in a towed car.

I'd be most concerned about the gear box.     The internals are splash-lubricated, so that if the car is towed with the front elevated, as on a "Spectacle" towing device, the gear box oil flows to the back.   The output shaft is driven by the road wheels, and all the gears will continue to mesh, but those to the front may be deprived of oil.        This isn't the case, as you are towing with an A-frame, with all four wheels on the ground.        All the gears should continue to be lubricated.  

Check your gearbox oil level.    If full, drain some.   Any signs of wear (metal particles) or over heating (darkening, smells diferent to gear oil, 'feels' less viscous)?

Good luck!

John

[Nick Jones]

1 hour ago, Jdowson said:

We have towed our cars behind our motor home without any problems and have travelled all over the country. For the 2018 Rbbr, we towed my triumph 2000 to near the start (200 miles) then did the rbbr before returning  home behind the motor home, didn't have any problems.

Good to know.  Lovely looking Mk1 too .

The risk is that with the rear wheels turning but the engine stationary, all the gears and first motion shaft are held stationary but the mainshaft still has to turn.  This results in unusually high relative speeds between the mainshaft and the inside of the gears and also between the mainshaft and first motion shaft.  That's the bad news.  The better news is that loads are very light.  Lubrication is another interesting question.  The gears won't be thrashing the oil up and splashing it around, but provided the oil level is above the bottom of the mainshaft you are probably ok.

 still worry about the mainshaft tip..... this is what the one in my GT6 looked like. 

It had been towed (only a few miles) and the oil level was low.

Hopefully the Herald will be ok.

Should be noted that cars with autoboxes should definitely not be towed (maybe low speed, very short distance ok in some cases) without the propshaft being removed and also manual cars with pumped oil lubrication systems.  That Includes cars with the BL LT77 5 speed like the TR7.  This I do have direct experience of - a friend ruined a perfectly good LT77 fitted in his P6 Rover V8 by towing it just 10 miles.

 

 

[JohnD]

Thank you, Nick!

Notable in TV prog, "Trucking Hell!" that it is routine for the guys about to tow a truck, to remove the propshaft.     Also, the rear halfshafts, which just unbolt without removing their wheels!

JOhn

[Jdowson]

Thanks for your compliments Nick and I note your concerns. I do keep an eye on things, with both our tow cars being regularly maintained and checked, the other car, my wife's audi a1, is used daily so will show any problems sooner than the triumph.

[Jdowson]

Hi Johnd

I have seen similar programs myself and am aware of the potential issues. Perhaps with the heavier weights involved this is probably a concern. With the relatively lower weights involved with my application, it doesn't,  or hasn't yet proved to be a problem. But as I said to Nick, I will keep an eye  on things.

[Nick Jones]

2 hours ago, Jdowson said:

Thanks for your compliments Nick and I note your concerns. I do keep an eye on things, with both our tow cars being regularly maintained and checked, the other car, my wife's audi a1, is used daily so will show any problems sooner than the triumph.

A fwd gearbox is a little different as some of the gears will be turning so the oil will be in motion. There is no spigot bearing interface. Also they mostly have roller bearings between the shafts and gears so I would expect them to cope well.

[JohnD]

3 hours ago, Jdowson said:

Thanks for your compliments Nick and I note your concerns. I do keep an eye on things, with both our tow cars being regularly maintained and checked, the other car, my wife's audi a1, is used daily so will show any problems sooner than the triumph.

You misplace our concern!     The tow car should only be be working slightly harder,  not a problem if it has the capacity to tow the weight involved - the Maximum Authorised Mass, which is tow vehicle and trailer with load, combined.

It's the TOWED car and its gearbox that is in question.

[Jdowson]

Hi John 

I did mean towed car, (slip of typing finger) and yes I agree with your comments with regard towing weights. Fortunately our 'Tow'  vehicle, our motor home, has the capacity to safely pull the cars we use as towed cars. 

[JohnD]

Of course!