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Covid 19, novel corona virus. Split from off-grid thread


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37 minutes ago, Nick Jones said:

:smile: Does this need to be kept well earthed to work?

Yeah, which is a bit annoying as the lead keeps getting tangled...

20 minutes ago, PeterC said:

re calcium deposition: vitamin K2 Mk4 Mk7 is a known influence as it promotes Ca deposition in bone and not arteries and other soft tissue. Its supply depends upon having the correct gut bacteria so deficiency cannot be predicted from diet alone.

I take a supplement twice a week on days when I dont take D3 to avoid competition for gut uptake. Belt and  braces maybe, as plasma [Ca] was fine after two years' 4000IU D3 and no K2.

more here:  https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/blog/2016/12/09/the-ultimate-vitamin-k2-resource/

Peter

 

@PeterC Thanks Peter, that's actually quite interesting and I'll have a more in depth read later.

However, still not going to self-prescribe :biggrin:

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Well I’m still spamming because I think it’s important...... and this seems to bear it out Pity he takes half an hour when it needs 10 minutes tops but anyway..... Trial in a 

You'd think there was a conspiracy over that expression even 

Someone sent me this... Feels like we are straying into MMR territory here chaps. To be honest I can only cope with so many conspiracy theories at once before I have to run back to the

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6 minutes ago, Escadrille Ecosse said:

Yeah, which is a bit annoying as the lead keeps getting tangled...

@PeterC Thanks Peter, that's actually quite interesting and I'll have a more in depth read later.

However, still not going to self-prescribe :biggrin:

Colin,   Gerry  Schwalfenberg treats his elderly pts routinely with D3 to reach >100 nmol/L. This article by him covers vit K : https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jnme/2017/6254836/

If I  were concerned  about taking D3 I would get my serum 25(OH)D measured eg City Assays Birmingham. Deficiency is very common and the frther north it gets worse. There is no doubt amongst the D3 Campaign Group that low D3 is drivng the pandemic and having a serum level of 100 nmol/L to 150 is safest.

Unofrtunately the majority of UK GPs are D3-unaware so you  are on your own. Unless you cna find a GP who is a member of BAPIO: they have been D3-aware since last May.

Vaccines are no substitute for D3. As new variants evoleve present vaccines may not work, In contrast the defenses promoted by D3 work agsinst all variants, by lysing the viral membrane.

Peter

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3 hours ago, PeterC said:

Colin,   Gerry  Schwalfenberg treats his elderly pts routinely with D3 to reach >100 nmol/L. This article by him covers vit K : https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jnme/2017/6254836/

If I  were concerned  about taking D3 I would get my serum 25(OH)D measured eg City Assays Birmingham. Deficiency is very common and the frther north it gets worse. There is no doubt amongst the D3 Campaign Group that low D3 is drivng the pandemic and having a serum level of 100 nmol/L to 150 is safest.

Unofrtunately the majority of UK GPs are D3-unaware so you  are on your own. Unless you cna find a GP who is a member of BAPIO: they have been D3-aware since last May.

Vaccines are no substitute for D3. As new variants evoleve present vaccines may not work, In contrast the defenses promoted by D3 work agsinst all variants, by lysing the viral membrane.

Peter

Peter. Thanks more stuff there.

I take vitamin supplements as a matter of course anyway. Vitamin D3 of 400IU in the summer and 800IU in the winter. I also get myself an annual MOT which checks things like blood calcium and all good on that front

Interesting the Vit K association. Further reading required. Whilst I may be reluctant to go too far off-piste as it were I do consider it to be MY body and I like to be well informed whenever my body is being poked and prodded by the medical profession so I can hopefully ask relevant questions and challenge an opinion that doesn't get me as good as I can be.

This is most definitely in that category and only going to get more relevant as I get less young :biggrin:

Cheers mate

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Testing kits can also be ordered here: http://www.vitamindtest.org.uk/

This is who I use anyway. I started taking 4000IU daily last year, which was combined with fairly frequent sunbathing whilst on my looooooooong trip. (Yes, it is a high dosage, but I spend nearly 2/3 of my current life inside an engine room with little exposure to daylight!!) I got a test done when I got back (start of October), resulted in 108.7nmol/L.

I then increased my dosage to 5000IU daily, on the basis I had lost the sunlight dose I got from sunbathing (Scotland in winter don't see much sun lol), another test end of January showed a drop in level to 100nmol/L. So now I have increased to 6000 IU, as I am aiming to be comfortably in the 100-150nmol/L, at least while Covid is still so prevalent and I have fly half way around the planet on a fairly regular basis!

Incidentally, I went with 4000IU daily as that is what the US & Canadian guidance is. I figured it couldn't be that dangerous a level, given our friends across the water's predilection for sueing each other on regular basis :biggrin:

Phil

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It's started!  Vaccinating yesterday, almost every person was having their second jab!    This part of the Covid response is really working, because it was organised by the NHS and not by Whitehall!

They were all seniors, seniors have hearing problems and the masks make it even more difficult to converse.    I remembered a paramedic who posted on Facebook about a phone app that gives you instant 'subtitles'.     It's Google "Live Transcribe", and it's really useful!        It prints what is spoken in large type on the mobile screen, with no 'training' and almost in real time, quite quickly enough to aid a conversation.   Miraculous!   And free from the Google App Store:  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.audio.hearing.visualization.accessibility.scribe

John

 

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Varies by region. SM has been vaccinating this morning, but there is more or less none taking place for the next two weeks as no vaccine being sent. After that they will supposedly be getting “double rations”, which supposedly represents the start of the second doses in addition to the next batch and will cause some throughput challenges, not least because the old folks are much slower....

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19 hours ago, thebrookster said:

Testing kits can also be ordered here: http://www.vitamindtest.org.uk/

This is who I use anyway. I started taking 4000IU daily last year, which was combined with fairly frequent sunbathing whilst on my looooooooong trip. (Yes, it is a high dosage, but I spend nearly 2/3 of my current life inside an engine room with little exposure to daylight!!) I got a test done when I got back (start of October), resulted in 108.7nmol/L.

I then increased my dosage to 5000IU daily, on the basis I had lost the sunlight dose I got from sunbathing (Scotland in winter don't see much sun lol), another test end of January showed a drop in level to 100nmol/L. So now I have increased to 6000 IU, as I am aiming to be comfortably in the 100-150nmol/L, at least while Covid is still so prevalent and I have fly half way around the planet on a fairly regular basis!

Incidentally, I went with 4000IU daily as that is what the US & Canadian guidance is. I figured it couldn't be that dangerous a level, given our friends across the water's predilection for sueing each other on regular basis :biggrin:

Phil

4000 is far from dangerous as this very recent review shows: https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202103.0061/v1

Problem is GPs dont have time or incllnation to learn about D3 and D3-aware specialst endocrinologists etc are thin on the ground.

D3 IS dangerous to big pharma profits.

So the system has killed off D3 utilisation clinically.

Terrrible, terrible mistake.

and not only for psoriasis pts, low serum 25(OH)D impairs longevity....

Peter

 

 

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4 hours ago, GT6MK3 said:

Meanwhile, vaccine nationalism has kicked in.  Italy has blocked quarter of a million doses of vaccine coming to Australia.

https://news.yahoo.com/someone-had-first-europe-kickstarts-124730400.html

Interesting choice.  Probably not the last.

All very ugly. Just as well the Australian handling of other control measures has been rather better than European!

Funny how they want to keep the Astra Zeneca/Oxford vaccine now having been moaning about how rubbish it is and refusing to use it on over 65s.....

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5 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

Varies by region. SM has been vaccinating this morning, but there is more or less none taking place for the next two weeks as no vaccine being sent. After that they will supposedly be getting “double rations”, which supposedly represents the start of the second doses in addition to the next batch and will cause some throughput challenges, not least because the old folks are much slower....

Well, that may now be the explanation why my wife has still not been offered any opportunities as a volunteer vaccinator having finally completed her practical training on Monday.

It is now 3 months and two weeks since her initial application. Apart from the 6 days needed to study online and pass in 22 subjects (Deradicalisation, Use of fire extinguishers, etc.) her response to all requests has been prompt. The time lapse (ie "delay") has been from the processing organisation. Unlike the vaccinations, this has not been done by the NHS but has been outsourced by Whitehall to some third party organisation. Not only do they excel in delay but also not being joined up is also a speciality. She was emailed on three occasions by separate people in one week a fortnight ago to provide her NI number. Of course this had also been provided to the organisation with all her other data on several previous occasions. 

She is now waiting to be asked 'What is your bust size'? Apparently, this is the moment you know you are going to be deployed because your vaccinator's polo shirt is being organised. I think it is the first time in her life that my wife will welcome such an inappropriate or impertinent question!

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This graph is for excess deaths in UK care homes during the vax role-out. Will post the link to the paper when i get it.  Might not be the vax, perhaps infection  brought in by vaccinators, "stress"..........  The Yellow Card data should reveal all. but will it ?  Peter

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I'm sorry Mrs.Miles' efforts are so unrewarded!    Here, I'm vaccinating about twice a week; no vaccine at all next week, but after that it's seven days a week, 8 til 6!    

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13 hours ago, PeterC said:

This graph is for excess deaths in UK care homes during the vax role-out. Will post the link to the paper when i get it.  Might not be the vax, perhaps infection  brought in by vaccinators, "stress"..........  The Yellow Card data should reveal all. but will it ?  Peter

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Is this the peter that has done all the vit d research? Has he joined q anon or did he just post this in his sleep??? No this graph is not evidenxe that the vaccine is causing mass deaths in older people! And you don't need any special knowledge of wherever the graph came from to work it out... just a few facts that are entirely public .

I dont know anything about the actual numbers in england but in terms of genral trends the actual deaths and vaccs on the graph look like they are probably about right but the interpretation is either pure ingnorance or deliberate conspiracy theory bs.

   It's no great mystery that care home deaths (of covid) peak around the same time as the general population peak (end of january, 2 to 3 weeks after the peak of infections). It's entirely what you would expect absent vaccination. 

 

Ok, so the legit question the graph raises is why are we still seeing a peak after vaccination commences... you might be forgiven for thinking it's just not working in older people.  

Except that...The 1st dose of the vaccination takes 7-10 days to result in antibody response (from the trial studies). And since symptoms appear maybe a week after actual infection what it boils down to is you dont expect to see an effect on the infection rate until 2-3 weeks after vaccination. Vaccine roll out began 8th december, so by the beginning of jaunary the only people you'd expect to have protection would be those vaccinated in the first couple of weeks. but the roll out was slow to begin and you might remember it began with healthcare workers and thise able to attend hospitals for vacc due to storage and transport issues with pfizer vaccine. All this leaves plenty of susceptible population in care homes in end december and 1st half of January when covid was rife. (And then of course, deaths lag a bit). So it's perfectly expected that you would see a peak care home deaths at a time of high covid circulation, the vaccination simply began too late to have much impact on the peak of deaths this time around. Even if it had begun say a couple of weeks earlier, and say half of care homes were protected, you'd still see a peak (just lower ) driven by those unprotected and you'd really have to compare vaccinated vs unvaccinated individuals at different points in time to confirm vaccination was starting to have an impact.  

This comparison still works past the peak of deaths and infections. The question then becomes are deaths/infections falling faster in the population groups that were vaccinated first. 

For scottland certainly there are indications that, over 80s deaths fell at a faster rate than younger groups... but to be sure its vaccination causing this and not something else (maybe over 80s have changed thierr behaviours more in response to lockdown) you definitely have to compare individuals and not just look at population trends to confirm interpretation of the trend.

Which is exactly what public health England and public health scotland have been doing to determine the real world effect of the vaccine program... in several pieces of work that have been highly publicised in the last couple of weeks.

https://publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/2021/02/23/covid-19-analysing-first-vaccine-effectiveness-in-the-uk

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n523

Scotland.  This is bmj news piece  on a preprint the study isn't published yet but will be soon.

 

A rebuttal for you Peter, from my partner who is working as a statistician for Public Health Scotland.

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13 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

Could it not just be the timing Peter?  The vaccine roll-out pretty much coincided with the peak of second wave......

Yes its possible it reflects relaxation of rules over Xmas, if care homes did so. There are similar data from care homes in Ireland, Portugal and israel so it might be  psosssible to disnetnagle confounders.

Peter

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46 minutes ago, thebrookster said:

A rebuttal for you Peter, from my partner who is working as a statistician for Public Health Scotland.

There are similar data for care homes in Ireland, Portugal and Israel that are part fo the study. Differences in behaviuors re exposure to the virus of care home residents may be informative.

I would not be surprised if care home residents  are different from the (small) cohort of elderly embraced by the trials, they are known to be extremely low on 25(OH)D3.  Low D3 is known to impair the antibody response to vaccines. Whether it impairs survival of the  vaccination per se needs investigating.

The data may or may not be a smoking gun. But I am not surpised that PHS (or PHE, PHW) are looking the other way. They have all their eggs in one vaccine basket.

Science is about debate not consensus.

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31 minutes ago, jerrycan said:

Somebody sent me this link.

 

More detail on alumnium in child vaccines: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0946672X19304201?via%3Dihub

Nanoparticles of iron derived from road vehicles (  bore wear, brake discs) are known to penetrate and accumulate in brain. having passed form lungs. Injecting aluminium nanoparticles , to me, looks dodgy.

That said, generalised inflammation and autism may reflect low D3 status. But theres no profits in D3 and lots in  vaccines...

Peter

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Someone sent me this...

IMG-20201210-WA0000.thumb.jpg.8e35ee04effa47c9170b57424ddd4030.jpg

Feels like we are straying into MMR territory here chaps.

To be honest I can only cope with so many conspiracy theories at once before I have to run back to the temple of the lizard people who rightly rule us all and ask them to purge my mind.

:biggrin:

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8 hours ago, PeterC said:

There are similar data for care homes in Ireland, Portugal and Israel that are part fo the study. Differences in behaviuors re exposure to the virus of care home residents may be informative.

I would not be surprised if care home residents  are different from the (small) cohort of elderly embraced by the trials, they are known to be extremely low on 25(OH)D3.  Low D3 is known to impair the antibody response to vaccines. Whether it impairs survival of the  vaccination per se needs investigating.

The data may or may not be a smoking gun. But I am not surpised that PHS (or PHE, PHW) are looking the other way. They have all their eggs in one vaccine basket.

Science is about debate not consensus.

I had a look back at the origin of this thread and at first was astonished that it's over a year ago that you mentioned the connection between Vit D3 deficiency and the severity of Cvid 19 and yet it's rarely if ever mentioned on MSM. I'm not going to suggest any conspiracy, honest.

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