Jump to content

Covid 19, novel corona virus. Split from off-grid thread


Recommended Posts

As a mouldy oldie with an underlying condition I am at more risk than most. So we are self isolating from now on. I very much doubt it can be stopped: the global populaiton has no immunity ( unlke flus) and it seems that it can be infectious while incubating for two weeks and showing no  fever or other symptoms. Rest of family wont be visitign either. At some point we will be infected, but hopefully when the NHS is not working flat out at 95% full.

The research effort to find exsting drugs that help is under way, Ive seen a report from Norway.........Fingers crossed.

D3 might help, but obviously no data on covid. I'll do a search and report back.

Peter

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 928
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Well I’m still spamming because I think it’s important...... and this seems to bear it out Pity he takes half an hour when it needs 10 minutes tops but anyway..... Trial in a 

Earlier, I posted a link to the Royal Society symposium where several global experts spoke about Covid  and the vaccine.  They only had an hour and the speakers could answer a few questions from their

My work are very much blazing their own trail on this one: we've just been told that, unless pregnant or high risk, everyone must be in the office or will be marked as 'unauthorised leave' with subseq

Posted Images

Peter,

Its just a question of hanging in there until there is a vaccine available and the powers that be decide to allow it to be used on us oldies, or perhaps it might solve NHS, housing, budget, care home if it was "found" not to be suitable for the over 60's. The question is do you trust your politicians?

Alan

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, AB|W said:

Peter,

Its just a question of hanging in there until there is a vaccine available and the powers that be decide to allow it to be used on us oldies, or perhaps it might solve NHS, housing, budget, care home if it was "found" not to be suitable for the over 60's. The question is do you trust your politicians?

Alan

 

 

 

Alan,

A vaccine is unilkely for a  year. An  existing safety tested drug might be found to work. For doctors who get infected there might be sreum from recovered pts.

For the rest of us, I reckon vitamin D3 4000 IU pd should help.But it takes two to three months to reach a new blood level after starting. This form a Canadian GP and member of a USA_Canada expert cttee on D3

image.png.03565a6d2af4e098bb1ca5730c9fea64.png

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

So that article suggests we know little about the disease. Except smoking may affect chances of infection, and may, just may, explain why more men in china die of the virus. 

I didn't know women had better immune systems than men (though not surprised, they live longer after all) but that could also explain the difference.

And No Shit Sherlock, old people far more likely to die.

The reference to aeroplane building is purely that we are learning about this virus all the time. Nothing more sinister. And no mention of D3!

Lets be honest. It is an nasty new addition to the human woes. So we are having to write the book as we go along. Meanwhile rest assured that for most of us the risk of serious complications is low, but higher than the flu. But it is the elderly and people with other health issues at higher risk. So again NSS. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

So far, it appears that CoVid-29 spreads via contact,  as droplets of infected material land on said surfaces, and are handled by someone else.      They infect themselves by touching their own face and eyes, something we do far more than we realize.

So the best advice is to wash your hands, frequently, and always before eating or touching someone else.    The hand wash must be more than the usual splash of water.  Soap, and rubbing the hands together front and back and each finger.     As a nme.monic it should take as long as it takes to sing "Happy Birthday to You", Twice!

Let the NHS show you the technique: https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/best-way-to-wash-your-hands/

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, JohnD said:

So far, it appears that CoVid-29 spreads via contact,  as droplets of infected material land on said surfaces, and are handled by someone else.      They infect themselves by touching their own face and eyes, something we do far more than we realize.

So the best advice is to wash your hands, frequently, and always before eating or touching someone else.    The hand wash must be more than the usual splash of water.  Soap, and rubbing the hands together front and back and each finger.     As a nme.monic it should take as long as it takes to sing "Happy Birthday to You", Twice!

Let the NHS show you the technique: https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/best-way-to-wash-your-hands/

I read that the value of a face mask and specs is to act as a barrier for inadvertent hand to mouth/nose/eyes transfer. Makes sense to me. Contaminated surfaces will soon be everywhere: door handles, rails, trolly handles, keypads, taps, hand-driers etc etc

Peter

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, PeterC said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4463890/

Author is one of the very few clinicians - globally- who have experience of preventing flu with D3.

D3 turns on genes for antimicrobial peptides that kill viruses, eg cathelicidin.

But thers no profits from D3, so no clinical trials.

Peter

 

Note the "D3 hammer" if the worst should happen. Peter

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting summary of Vitamin D and the ACE2 receptors.

Not my work!

There’s a lot of misinformation doing the rounds prompting warnings from health agencies and retailers like Amazon removing millions of books, micronutrients and other product listings that mention the lurgy.  
Half truths in the media and opportunists punting witchy remedies have also left many people confused. So in the remote chance this post isn’t blocked here are some scientific facts to share with your friends and family. Certain words have been changed to hopefully bypass the bots… 

FACT - In 2017 researchers from Queen Mary University in London published a major study in the BMJ. The systematic review and meta-analysis of 25 clinical trials conducted in 14 countries involving 11,000 participants concluded that vitamin D supplementation protected against acute respiratory tract infection. 

FACT - A large body of peer-reviewed data suggests a number of nutraceuticals can boost type 1 interferon response to RNA lurgies – including in floo en za and those Mexican beer-sounding bugs – which has been well documented in the journals. Interferons are proteins that help regulate our immune system.

FACT – All the beer bugs attach to ACE2 enzyme receptors in humans and that is how these lurgies enter our cells. Angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) is a wee gene that sits on our cell membranes. It is part of what is known as the renin-angiotensin system – a hormone system that, among other things, regulates blood pressure. When this system becomes over-activated (like when too much calcium builds up in our bodies) the ACE2 genes get their rocks off and produce a substance that narrows our blood vessels. This is why doctors prescribe ACE2 inhibitor drugs to treat hypertension and kidney disease. But this tiny receptor is also a gateway for several pathogens including the new beer bug and malaria so we need to keep ACE2 in check.

FACT – Drug companies are scrambling to repurpose old malaria drugs like chloroquine which disrupt ACE2 receptor function in the hope it stops the beer bug from getting in. The current vak seens in development are targeting the spikey parts of the beer bug so it can’t attach to the ACE2 receptor on our cells.

FACT – Vitamin D modulates the ACE2 enzyme. In 2011 scientists from the University of Chicago conducted PCR and ELISA analysis (DNA testing) which found vitamin D controls the expression of ACE2. In 2017 Chinese scientists tested vitamin D on mice with acute lung injury and discovered vitamin D inhibited ACE2 helping to restore lung function. In fact, if you jump onto Google Scholar you will find no less than 1080 studies on vitamin D and ACE2 – plenty of bedtime reading! 

FACT – Last week Chinese scientists published a study in the International Journal of Oral Science which found high levels of ACE2 in oral mucosa – the mucous membrane lining the inside of our mouth. They also found the receptor was highly enriched in the epithelial cells of the tongue. In other words, the entry point for this beer bug may be concentrated in our mouths highlighting the importance of good oral hygiene, covering your mouth when coughing, and throwing tissues straight in the bin.

FACT – Nutrition is a critical determinant of immune responses and micronutrient deficiencies are associated with varied adverse health outcomes, including a weakened immune system which leads to a higher risk for infections.

Alan

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, AB|W said:

Interesting summary of Vitamin D and the ACE2 receptors.

Not my work!

There’s a lot of misinformation doing the rounds prompting warnings from health agencies and retailers like Amazon removing millions of books, micronutrients and other product listings that mention the lurgy.  
Half truths in the media and opportunists punting witchy remedies have also left many people confused. So in the remote chance this post isn’t blocked here are some scientific facts to share with your friends and family. Certain words have been changed to hopefully bypass the bots… 

FACT - In 2017 researchers from Queen Mary University in London published a major study in the BMJ. The systematic review and meta-analysis of 25 clinical trials conducted in 14 countries involving 11,000 participants concluded that vitamin D supplementation protected against acute respiratory tract infection. 

FACT - A large body of peer-reviewed data suggests a number of nutraceuticals can boost type 1 interferon response to RNA lurgies – including in floo en za and those Mexican beer-sounding bugs – which has been well documented in the journals. Interferons are proteins that help regulate our immune system.

FACT – All the beer bugs attach to ACE2 enzyme receptors in humans and that is how these lurgies enter our cells. Angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) is a wee gene that sits on our cell membranes. It is part of what is known as the renin-angiotensin system – a hormone system that, among other things, regulates blood pressure. When this system becomes over-activated (like when too much calcium builds up in our bodies) the ACE2 genes get their rocks off and produce a substance that narrows our blood vessels. This is why doctors prescribe ACE2 inhibitor drugs to treat hypertension and kidney disease. But this tiny receptor is also a gateway for several pathogens including the new beer bug and malaria so we need to keep ACE2 in check.

FACT – Drug companies are scrambling to repurpose old malaria drugs like chloroquine which disrupt ACE2 receptor function in the hope it stops the beer bug from getting in. The current vak seens in development are targeting the spikey parts of the beer bug so it can’t attach to the ACE2 receptor on our cells.

FACT – Vitamin D modulates the ACE2 enzyme. In 2011 scientists from the University of Chicago conducted PCR and ELISA analysis (DNA testing) which found vitamin D controls the expression of ACE2. In 2017 Chinese scientists tested vitamin D on mice with acute lung injury and discovered vitamin D inhibited ACE2 helping to restore lung function. In fact, if you jump onto Google Scholar you will find no less than 1080 studies on vitamin D and ACE2 – plenty of bedtime reading! 

FACT – Last week Chinese scientists published a study in the International Journal of Oral Science which found high levels of ACE2 in oral mucosa – the mucous membrane lining the inside of our mouth. They also found the receptor was highly enriched in the epithelial cells of the tongue. In other words, the entry point for this beer bug may be concentrated in our mouths highlighting the importance of good oral hygiene, covering your mouth when coughing, and throwing tissues straight in the bin.

FACT – Nutrition is a critical determinant of immune responses and micronutrient deficiencies are associated with varied adverse health outcomes, including a weakened immune system which leads to a higher risk for infections.

Alan

Alan

That's interesting - thanks.  I am starting the fourth week of a particularly aggressive respiratory tract infection (three separate GPs have assured me that the profile is not consistent with c-virus and that my lungs are clear) and have upped my D3 intake to 6,000 UI pd.  The challenge is to get my immune system up to scratch in time for the inevitable arrival of the beast itself.

I have been suspicious of the fact that Poland and Hungary are still being portrayed as 'islands of freedom' in Europe - could it really be that the virus is deterred by overbearing bureaucracy and intractable far-right politics..?  Poles have strong links with (and continued scheduled flights to) China and Italy is the preferred destination for skiing during the state 2-week winter holiday period, just finished.  But local press is beginning to report that there is considerable reluctance to test, because each test costs approx. Euro 120 and there is currently only one testing station, in Warsaw.

As ever, we risk complacency as a result of misinformation.  Somebody recently said that the problem with real news is that most of it is behind a paywall, whereas fake news is invariably free.

Paul

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, AB|W said:

Peter,

Don't worry unless the BP hits zero.

Are you hitting the cough syrup as well?

https://www.sciencealert.com/drug-used-in-cough-syrup-for-decades-offers-new-hope-as-parkinson-s-treatment/amp

Alan

Alan,  No. It addresses one aspect of PD leaving many other pathological pathways to continue. The reason I'm so genned up on D3 is because it hits many PD targets: 

oxidative stress, calcium, inflammation. I also take stuff to tighten up mitochondria. Its a DIY cocktail based on science and on average an hour per day reading. The

placebo effect must be enormous !    Peter

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, PaulAA said:

Alan

That's interesting - thanks.  I am starting the fourth week of a particularly aggressive respiratory tract infection (three separate GPs have assured me that the profile is not consistent with c-virus and that my lungs are clear) and have upped my D3 intake to 6,000 UI pd.  The challenge is to get my immune system up to scratch in time for the inevitable arrival of the beast itself.

I have been suspicious of the fact that Poland and Hungary are still being portrayed as 'islands of freedom' in Europe - could it really be that the virus is deterred by overbearing bureaucracy and intractable far-right politics..?  Poles have strong links with (and continued scheduled flights to) China and Italy is the preferred destination for skiing during the state 2-week winter holiday period, just finished.  But local press is beginning to report that there is considerable reluctance to test, because each test costs approx. Euro 120 and there is currently only one testing station, in Warsaw.

As ever, we risk complacency as a result of misinformation.  Somebody recently said that the problem with real news is that most of it is behind a paywall, whereas fake news is invariably free.

Paul

Paul,  Your GP likely does nto know about the D3 hammer cited above.  Concerns about hypercalcaemia are apochryphal:

  https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0960076018306228#bib0410

(an email to the first author will get you a pdf)

Heamochromatosis pts should beware of D3 as it promotes iron uptake.

Peter

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, PeterC said:

I am starting the fourth week of a particularly aggressive respiratory tract infection

I'm on day 4 of what I would call a pretty bad flu.. At this point I wouldn't be amazed if it turned out to be this as I know of at least a couple of colleagues who've travelled to hotspots (like China) and despite them undergoing a work imposted 14 day quarantine, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it's much more widespread than anyone is reporting.  Mostly, I think due to people (like me) where nothing particularly bad has happened, I've stayed in bed for 3-4 days (bored out of my mind), upped my vitamin-d and paracetamol intake :) and watched loads of crap TV.  I'm essentially self-isolated by default, but have no immediate plans to go back to work.

I asked a doctor friend of ours if I should be tested and she said that for the time being they're only testing severe cases of pneumonia or people who've recently travelled to infected areas, so I would suspect lots of cases are just slipping under the radar (which is probably good news in terms of the statistics).

Link to post
Share on other sites

You're in Belgium, right, Richy?

I fear that if the testing policy uyou were quirted by you doctor is true of Belgian national policy, we're doomed,   Or continental Europe is, at least.    With a history of potential contact with known hotspots, you SHOULD be tested!

JOhn

Link to post
Share on other sites

No not Belgium, but close :)  I doubt they were quoting national policy and it was a few days ago when I asked, but at that point there had been no confirmed cases in the country and I guess no reason to worry, might get a different response now.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, richy_rich said:

I'm on day 4 of what I would call a pretty bad flu.. At this point I wouldn't be amazed if it turned out to be this as I know of at least a couple of colleagues who've travelled to hotspots (like China) and despite them undergoing a work imposted 14 day quarantine, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it's much more widespread than anyone is reporting.  Mostly, I think due to people (like me) where nothing particularly bad has happened, I've stayed in bed for 3-4 days (bored out of my mind), upped my vitamin-d and paracetamol intake :) and watched loads of crap TV.  I'm essentially self-isolated by default, but have no immediate plans to go back to work.

I asked a doctor friend of ours if I should be tested and she said that for the time being they're only testing severe cases of pneumonia or people who've recently travelled to infected areas, so I would suspect lots of cases are just slipping under the radar (which is probably good news in terms of the statistics).

Try the D3 Hammer, and be the forum's guinea pig.:ermm:

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, PeterC said:

Paul,  Your GP likely does nto know about the D3 hammer cited above.  Concerns about hypercalcaemia are apochryphal:

  https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0960076018306228#bib0410

(an email to the first author will get you a pdf)

Heamochromatosis pts should beware of D3 as it promotes iron uptake.

Peter

Peter

Thanks - yes, i was deterred by the threat of calcification.

I'm prepared to give the D3 hammer a shot.  I'm not clear, though - is this a one shot (either 50,000 IU in one go or 3 days of 3 x 10,000 IU) and then stop or do you then return to conventional 2,000 IU per day thereafter?

Paul

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, PaulAA said:

Peter

Thanks - yes, i was deterred by the threat of calcification.

I'm prepared to give the D3 hammer a shot.  I'm not clear, though - is this a one shot (either 50,000 IU in one go or 3 days of 3 x 10,000 IU) and then stop or do you then return to conventional 2,000 IU per day thereafter?

Paul

Paul, Do the hammer then keep with the 2000 pd thereafter.

I take a  high dose daily, 10,000 IU, and have doen for a   year. So I take vitK2MK4+MK7 to direct the faster calcium uptake from the gut into bone and teeth and away from soft tissues, But thats not necessary with 2000 pd.nor with the hammer.

Peter

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/2/2020 at 4:21 PM, PeterC said:

Try the D3 Hammer, and be the forum's guinea pig.

Hmmm.... I usually take 4000IU daily, the morning after the initial fever hit from my as-yet undiagnosed general seasonal flu I doubled the dose..  On reading your original 'hammer' post I doubled it again on a whim - I was bored, after all - (so, up again to 16k IU daily) and I'd say I'm now fully recovered..

However, I don't think we can really draw any conclusions from that I'm afraid.

I think 4-7 days recovery time would be typical for seasonal flu for someone of my age and fitness, one thing I would say though is that I definitely didn't have any respiratory 'complications' that I often used to get when coming down with this sort of thing (once ending up nearly dead from a secondary pneumonia).  

My main reason for taking D3 is that I don't see any downside and it's cheap. I'm dubious about many (but not all) of the claims made for it, but I am sure that many people are deficient in it and the cheap over the counter supplements and the multivitamins don't contain enough of the stuff given how much you can generate naturally on a sunny day.   You can have your levels checked, I have a full blood test every few years keep an eye on where they are. I've definitely noticed effects (such as fewer colds/infections in general etc., mood improvement)

Also I'm aware that, in my case, the effect could be placebo but that's fine too - the placebo effect is nothing to be sneezed at either.   

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...