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Covid 19, novel corona virus. Split from off-grid thread


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Thanks John.   Love the mechanical one - reminiscent of organ bellows pumps and fixable with hammer pliers and screwdriver.

Blame it on China?  Bah.... the cabinet did damn-all even with weeks/months warning - need to look a bit nearer home methinks!

On  brighter note, the John Hopkins figures seem to suggest that infection rates have peaked in most of Europe, even (maybe, hopefully) here.  Something odd about Italy (still) as they've more plateau'd that peaked.  USA.... who knows little early to say.  BIG numbers though.  As for South America and Africa..... who knows.

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Well I’m still spamming because I think it’s important...... and this seems to bear it out Pity he takes half an hour when it needs 10 minutes tops but anyway..... Trial in a 

Earlier, I posted a link to the Royal Society symposium where several global experts spoke about Covid  and the vaccine.  They only had an hour and the speakers could answer a few questions from their

My work are very much blazing their own trail on this one: we've just been told that, unless pregnant or high risk, everyone must be in the office or will be marked as 'unauthorised leave' with subseq

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John, the bit I really don't get is that yes, working towards HI makes some sense, as does keeping infection rate at a "manageable" level and I understand that from a number of angles that manageable probably means stretching the NHS beyond comfort zones, but that will allow HI to be achieved much quicker.

But China, Singapore etc? they are nailing infection down to prevent spread. But I can't imagine they will stop it for any length of time. CV is bound to be lurking all over the place, some punters afraid to admit they are ill, others unaware. So they will be constantly fire-fighting until/if a successful vaccine is developed. It won't be easy and no doubt it will be massively disruptive. 

Re those Merc CPAP thingies, they reckoned that they greatly reduced the numbers needing a ventilator? Makes some sense, many people are likely to need a little breathing help, but maybe not a ventilator (plus they said people on a ventilator need sedating, which needs more medical input??)

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1 hour ago, zetecspit said:

John, the bit I really don't get is that yes, working towards HI makes some sense, as does keeping infection rate at a "manageable" level and I understand that from a number of angles that manageable probably means stretching the NHS beyond comfort zones, but that will allow HI to be achieved much quicker.

But China, Singapore etc? they are nailing infection down to prevent spread. But I can't imagine they will stop it for any length of time. CV is bound to be lurking all over the place, some punters afraid to admit they are ill, others unaware. So they will be constantly fire-fighting until/if a successful vaccine is developed. It won't be easy and no doubt it will be massively disruptive.

Clive

Worth taking a look at this article.  Being The Atlantic magazine, it is from an American perspective, but the prognosis is the same for the whole world.  A freshly released study published in Nature magazine also indicate that Sars-CoV-2 has 'learnt' since its last outing as Sars-CoV-1 and is much more adept at infecting its human host, so the outlook has changed (and not for the better) since The Atlantic article was published over the weekend.

Simply, this is not going to go away.

Paul

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China, Singapore, Korea, ?Germany?  have persisted much longer with the initial stage of containment,  identifying, contact tracing and isolating those infected, to slow the spread of infection.  The UK gave up early, because WE DIDN'T HAVE THE TEST KITS!     

Calm, John.   Cool green grass.   

Better, thank you.   We really don't know if immunity after infection is long lasting.    Even if it is, then this won't stop until 'herd immunity' is enough to stop the spread of infection, like it has done (no more thanks to the antivaxers, and general passive inertia) for measles, etc.   And then we don't know if this virus is unstable, like a seasonal flu virus, which presents a new immune challenge every year.   Or if, for reasons we don't understand, the summer inhibits 'seasonal' flu and does the same to this.  We know so little about it.

Did I write about the DNA/RNA vaccines that are being  developed?   They offer the best and quickest route to a new vaccine, but are something we have never done before!    Because we have the genome of CV19 (thank you, China) we can select the piece of Viral RNA that codes for, say, the protein spikes that cover the surface of the virus.     Insert that into a "harmless" adenovirus and give that as a vaccine.    It's taken up by body cells that synthesise the proteins, and release them into the body, where the immune system recognises them as foreign and attacks them.  When a real virus appears, the immune system already has the code to attack the protein.   In theory.   Previous attempts at this, mainly for people with congenital missing gene diseases, have gone horribly wrong, but it has been very successful more recently.   Testing will take months, through animal, then human trials, which all take time.  

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5 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

The gearbox was made by Sturmey-Archer

 

Almost as bad a Lucas engineering.

Why trot out that old canard?       The SA gearbox was fine piece of British engineering, that powered millions of bicycles around the world!   Lucas had a few problem areas (bullet connectors, for example) but products of the age.

Jhn

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You can all guess what I am going to say. The entire global population ( withthe exception of  the Masai and Hazda tribes) reach nohwere near a phyisological level of 25(OH)D3. If everyone were, the the virus would have much  less impact. But we are not, and unitl D3 is supplemented globally or we all dump slip/slap/slop as a bad move I am pessimistic .RNA viruses mutate fast, and often outrun a vaccine, yet we give them a breeding ground by having impaired innate immunity. D3 is the answer, it will be fasianting to see how llong it takes the world to realise. Peter

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16 hours ago, PaulAA said:

Thanks, Chris

So you would agree that the infection rate in the UK must be vastly greater than the current level of testing indicates?

Indeed, I don't believe I ever disputed that.

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5 hours ago, PeterC said:

You can all guess what I am going to say. The entire global population ( withthe exception of  the Masai and Hazda tribes) reach nohwere near a phyisological level of 25(OH)D3. If everyone were, the the virus would have much  less impact. But we are not, and unitl D3 is supplemented globally or we all dump slip/slap/slop as a bad move I am pessimistic .RNA viruses mutate fast, and often outrun a vaccine, yet we give them a breeding ground by having impaired innate immunity. D3 is the answer, it will be fasianting to see how llong it takes the world to realise. Peter

Peter,

Can you recommend a reliable online source of D3 tablets please.

Cheers

Chris

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4 hours ago, Chris W said:

Peter,

Can you recommend a reliable online source of D3 tablets please.

Cheers

Chris

These are the ones I bought that Chris, though they are 4000IU!! (I spend most of my working life in a ship's engine room, so D3 intake is rather low to start of with).

Vitamin D 4000 IU | 365 Softgel... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07HM81L42?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Cheers,

Phil

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Following the conversation here, and seeing Peter's posts on Vit D in the past, last evening I ordered these - https://www.healthspan.co.uk/products/vitamin-d3-50-plus#/?pack size=180

I'd like to think I/we have a good diet with fresh Fish a couple of times a week (although that is hard to get now), I get outside a lot and have always taken an Omega 3 supplement that has a small amount of Vit C, D and traces of Zinc and Manganese. I think it is time to boost the D3 so hence this purchase. The details says take one a day and that each capsule contains 2000iu.

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11 hours ago, JohnD said:

Why trot out that old canard?       The SA gearbox was fine piece of British engineering, that powered millions of bicycles around the world!   Lucas had a few problem areas (bullet connectors, for example) but products of the age.

Jhn

As a kid I had a Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub with really easy gear changes. There were people round with derailleur 3 speeds, but you had to get the  position right to prevent the 'graunching' noises. It was obvious to me that the future lay with SA gears for bikes and that derailleurs didn't have a future. (sigh!)

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1 hour ago, Rod1883 said:

Following the conversation here, and seeing Peter's posts on Vit D in the past, last evening I ordered these - https://www.healthspan.co.uk/products/vitamin-d3-50-plus#/?pack size=180

I'd like to think I/we have a good diet with fresh Fish a couple of times a week (although that is hard to get now), I get outside a lot and have always taken an Omega 3 supplement that has a small amount of Vit C, D and traces of Zinc and Manganese. I think it is time to boost the D3 so hence this purchase. The details says take one a day and that each capsule contains 2000iu.

We have been buying the asda/sainsbury 25ug ones, though 5ug is the RDA so even the 25 is 5x RDA. Peter suggests this may not be enough? Can't remember... but its got to be way better than nothing.

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1 hour ago, Rod1883 said:

Following the conversation here, and seeing Peter's posts on Vit D in the past, last evening I ordered these - https://www.healthspan.co.uk/products/vitamin-d3-50-plus#/?pack size=180

I'd like to think I/we have a good diet with fresh Fish a couple of times a week (although that is hard to get now), I get outside a lot and have always taken an Omega 3 supplement that has a small amount of Vit C, D and traces of Zinc and Manganese. I think it is time to boost the D3 so hence this purchase. The details says take one a day and that each capsule contains 2000iu.

Rod

Worth taking a bigger dose than recommended, to build up reserves - discussed recently here.

Paul

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Rod

Peter C has done quite a lot of research into the subject and has found little evidence of risk associated with overdosing.  Absorption is also slow, so it appears that a 'hammer blow' (or several hammer blows) of 50,000 IUs to kick-start the process is not going to increase the risk.  Peter also suggested vitamin supplements to counter de-calcification.

Paul

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10 hours ago, Chris W said:

Peter,

Can you recommend a reliable online source of D3 tablets please.

Cheers

Chris

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kirkland-Signature-Maximum-Strength-Vitamin-D3-600ct/283699270313?hash=item420dcb52a9:g:o6UAAOSwKKZd59k5

We have used this for three years. Used to be on Amazon. but not there now.

One capsule a day, or two if elderly,

Peter

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re doses

https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202003.0235/v2

image.png.a58e93f86a3856568276cb8d01052d09.png

So if you are worried about over-dosing get your 25(OH)D3 measured by City Assays Birmingham. Then take supplements and/or sun to get to the physiological level of 100-125 nmol/l stated above.

But 2000 to 4000 IU pd works for most of us.

I sense it is dnagerous to get COVID with a low D3, as borne out by this Italian  endocrine prof;s observations:

https://www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m810/rr-36

Peter

 

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Interesting that Vit D levels in the general populations have been typically found to be lower in southern Europe than northern Europe even though you might think they'd be higher due to greater UV exposure........

 

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8 minutes ago, Nick Jones said:

Interesting that Vit D levels in the general populations have been typically found to be lower in southern Europe than northern Europe even though you might think they'd be higher due to greater UV exposure........

..only mad dogs and Englishmen, plus other Northern Europeans, go out in the mid-day sun?

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2 minutes ago, Nick Jones said:

 

Interesting that Vit D levels in the general populations have been typically found to be lower in southern Europe than northern Europe even though you might think they'd be higher due to greater UV exposure........

 

Maybe they think only "mad dogs and englishmen go out in the midday sun" ?

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