Mark Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 In the late eighties possibly early nineties I remember seeing an ex Trans Am Vitesse at Lydden Hill, Kent. There was an article about it in CCC magazine at around that time, think I have a copy up in the loft, quick search and there is a copy on eBay . https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CCC-magazine-8-91-feat-F1-stock-car-Trans-Am-Vitesse-Astra-GTE-Bobby-Allison/383104790392?hash=item5932d32f78:g:bZgAAOSwy2tdVSss I remember it was imported by a Canadian journalist, and believe Kingston Sports cars built another engine for the car. I wondered if it was the 'Candy Box' Vitesse, but think it must have been another car. Can't find any info or pictures of it but from memory looked very similar to the Candy Box Vitesse, with the big flared arches. I did find some reference of the owner at that time, Graham Jones, sadly the article was in his memory, as he has passed away. Interested if anyone has any pictures or information on the car and if it's still in the UK. Wish I had taken some photos of it at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) Mark, As you may imagine, I was excited by this article when it appeared, and I still have a copy in my files. I could find little more about it until the Age of the Internet, when I was able to contact Graham Jones in 2009, who kindly sent me this detailed reply, describing the cars origin and how it went back to the US: Hi John, Well done for tracking me down, as I have now received your original e-mail via a couple of sources. I can certainly provide you with details of the Vitesse while it was in my ownership - such as I remember them - but you may also want to try and contact Mike Rockett, for the story of the car's origins. As far as I know, Mike still lives in Washington state, not far from Seattle (he used to work for Boeing), and can probably be tracked down via either the SCCA Pacific Northwest Region or the International Conference of Sports Car Clubs (ICSCC). Unfortunately, I don't have any contact details for him. First of all, the Kastner cars were quite separate from Rockett's, and although the former may well have provided inspiration, Mike's car was very much his own work. The story, as told to me, was that Kastner built three Vitesses to run in the 2-litre class of the original Trans-Am Series, specifically to compete against the Alfas, BMWs, Datsuns and Porsches. They were apparently quick enough, but suffered from gearbox reliability issues. One was written off in an accident (possibly at Lime Rock?), a second appears to have dropped out of sight in the intervening years, while the third was acquired by the same North Carolina-based historic racer who eventually bought the Rockett car from me. I can't confirm that the gentleman's name was Ralph Thomas, as it was a good few years ago now, but the name certainly rings a bell with me. I subsequently heard that he had sold the car on to another historic racer in the US. The Rockett Vitesse was built very much to the SCCA rules of the time, and was a heavyweight by UK modified saloon standards. The body was all steel, including the hand-formed wheel arch extensions, and was fitted with a substantial rollcage, while all remaining windows, bar the windscreen, were Perspex. The car was substantially lowered and had Koni coilovers, adjustable anti-roll bars front and rear and a Datsun diff and halfshafts. From memory, the wheels were 8 x 13in. I purchased the car from Bart Spruyt, a fellow member of the Victoria Motor Sports Club in Victoria, Brtitish Columbia, who in turn had bought it as a rolling shell from Mike Rockett. Bart fitted a pretty much standard, North American-specification Triumph TR6 engine mated to a Toyota five-speed, and ran the car in this form in a number of ICSCC novice events on the west coast of Canada and the US in the mid-1970s. The Vitesse was in this form when I imported it to the UK, in 1985, and after upgrading the 2.5-litre engine slightly with the addition of triple Webers, a rally spec cam and tubular exhaust manifold, it ran in a couple of hillclimbs and a sprint. My aim was to get back to circuit racing, however, and specifically, to compete in Triumph Sports Six Club events. To make a fairly long and involved story considerably shorter, I made contact with Tony Lindsay-Dean, who ran the Kingston Sports Car Centre in Hounslow at the time and was the scourge of Sports Six Club events in a very lightweight, well-sorted Vitesse convertible. Mindful of the fact I was in possession of a rather unusual car with some history attached to it, I decided I wanted to return it to as close to original specification as possible. I therefore eventually did a deal with Tony to build a full-race 2-litre engine mated to the correct four-speed Triumph gearbox, but uprated with TLD modifications to address the reliability issues Kastner experienced with his cars. The car was in this form when I entered it in what turned out to be its only UK motor race, a TSSC event at Lydden, in September 1991. I eventually finished third, behind a pair of lightweight, V8-engined TR7s, at a circuit I had never raced on before, so the Vitesse clearly had potential. As a result, I started to hatch plans to lighten the car and have a serious assault on the championship the following year, but a new job, which took up a great deal of time and required an ever-increasing amount of travel, put paid to that. The Triumph therefore sat for awhile before I received an enquiry from our historic racer in the US. We subsequently came to an arrangement (sight unseen), money changed hands, and I shipped the car to North Carolina. I received a follow-up note from the buyer several months later, thanking me for being straight with him in my description of the Vitesse and saying how pleased he was with it. That was the last I heard from him. I do have photos, mostly from the CCC archive, but these are all either in the form of prints or on contact sheets. I'll endeavour to have them scanned in the next few weeks so I can e-mail a selection across to you. I also have an idea in the back of my mind that "Classic and Sports Car" magazine may have recounted the story of the Kastner Vitesses in a feature a number of years ago, but I couldn't swear to it. Hope this helps a bit, and I would suggest the next step might well be to try and locate Mike Rockett . . . . Best regards, Graham Jones Editor Racecar Engineering I was never able to trace Mike Rockett, or the US buyer. I'll be at the Kastner Cup next year, maybe I can find more then. JOhn Edited December 12, 2019 by JohnD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Great story John, thanks for posting it. Bet the car is still out there somewhere - but could take some finding. Kastner Cup meeting has to be a great place to ask around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpbarrett Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Very interesting. Tony Lindsay-Dean is still around and trading from his house outside Bury St Edmunds. He is also active on FB, and I have his phone number, if anyone wants to follow up on this and find out about the engine. Mike OT: Tony Lindsay-Dean is an interesting guy, bit like marmite... I have done some business with him, some not good, but some good. The gearbox in my Herald was rebuilt by him. He messed up the reverse idle wheel position but apart from that (!) it is very good, its a 3 rail J type OD with GT6 ratios Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted December 12, 2019 Author Share Posted December 12, 2019 Thanks John for posting that. I've wondered about the car from time to time, so thanks for clearing it up in my mind. It was an impressive looking car in the flesh, so hopefully it's still out there somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6Steve Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 The Kastner Kandy Box is in Southern California now and appeared at VARA's British Extravaganza last May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 I think that Butch Gilbert has sold it - do you know to who? Again, I beliveit will be at Mid-Ohio for the Kastner Cup, so no doubt I'll find out then! JOhn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6Steve Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 hour ago, JohnD said: I think that Butch Gilbert has sold it - do you know to who? Again, I beliveit will be at Mid-Ohio for the Kastner Cup, so no doubt I'll find out then! JOhn It was purchased by my buddy and stout competitor Chuck Gee. He was a member here at one time. Lives right by Kastner... BTW, that track Nick posted is the magnificent Thunderhill Raceway in Northern California Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 It is a magnificent track..... and I love the noise the car makes. Nothing like any Triumph 6 I’ve had contact with. Seems to have more than 4 gears too, unless 1st is really high? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) Wow! Plenty of blind brows! Looks like fun! Of course, Chuck Gee, I did hear from him when he bought the Candy Box. John Edited December 12, 2019 by JohnD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 18 hours ago, JohnD said: Wow! Plenty of blind brows! Looks like fun! Of course, Chuck Gee, I did hear from him when he bought the Candy Box. John Hello John I had to have a look https://www.thunderhill.com/ Pity it is a bit far away(still it would probably still be far away if we lived in USA! Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Would like a track day there....... car probably wouldn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 34 minutes ago, Nick Jones said: Would like a track day there....... car probably wouldn’t. Go on you know you want to? Perhaps hire something there? Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 It's a quick Vitesse until the gearbox fails, out accelerating a lotus cotina amongst others https://youtu.be/Hvc-3D8fJhM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Seemed competitive. Transmission failure in a Vitesse...... who’d have thought it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Hello All I know the gearbox let go but what RPM do we think it was doing? sounded higher than the 1st clip! Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted November 28, 2020 Author Share Posted November 28, 2020 (edited) Just seen this on Youtube. Candy Box Vitesse racing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC5SxoekqCg Edited November 28, 2020 by Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escadrille Ecosse Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Candybox is one quick Vitesse! The Thunderhill track looks beautiful though there aren't a lot of trees round there obviously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted November 28, 2020 Author Share Posted November 28, 2020 Yes would like that engine in my car. Not sure if it is a 2, or 2.5 litre, think it's had both in its life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Revs like a 2L.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6Steve Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 31 minutes ago, Escadrille Ecosse said: Candybox is one quick Vitesse! The Thunderhill track looks beautiful though there aren't a lot of trees round there obviously The few trees are the secret to a fast lap at Thunderhil.. Very few and those few are very important LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escadrille Ecosse Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 I was wondering about corner prompts on that track Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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