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Bumblebee

Help required before ordering new springs

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Ha! 

I knew someone would mention all the pistons being at the top at the same time. He got it all bolted in and turned it over a few times so he could see things going up and down. The price of Twink bits is sending me over the edge. I need a new oil pickup strainer gauze..... 35 Quid! 

That being said, during the week this week I am sorting the water pump and tidying all the sandwich plates. Next weekend I am hoping the sump will go on, flywheel, front plate, and we can throw it in the car. The heads going on last once its in the car as we need to throw an old head on there to mock up some new exhaust manifolds (or repair the old ones).

Getting the engine in will be a huge moment , and the first time the engine has been in the car for at least 10 years..... then Lewis and Bob the neighbour are wiring it for alternator, whilst I take on another megajolt install. The heads are built and just need timing in. I am hoping it will fire beginning of December.  Lewis gets to turn the key. If he built it, he gets the honour of starting it! The camera will be poised for that day! Then its all hands to the pump to get it flatted back, the interior in it and a trip to the MOT man. Given it has not moved for XX years another set of eyes is a no brainer.

To be honest Lewis does struggle with classroom learning, but this could give him a great shot of confidence that you can turn your hand to things, follow certain principles and succeed. I hope so anyhow. He even went to the pub with Bob after tidying up, to celebrate with a coke. The idea is to give it to his mum Xmas day, with a folder of photos showing him building it.

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Great stuff, Bumblebee!

I have a young apprentice - he found my instruments this weekend and was doing precision measurements - on the furniture!

IMG_20191109_175437[1].jpg

Later, we changed wheels, and I introduced him to the whizzy gun and torque wrench.    The first is still a bit heavy for him to hold and he'd have to jump on the wrench to get it to click, but soon ....!

JOhn

Edited by JohnD

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Just an update on bearings in case anyone else ever needs to find them 

The Roller bearing is a Torrington B-168 (cross referenced from part 117853

The Front Bearing is an iteration of an SKF RLS8-J    (GHB117)

Koyo still make a B168 . I ordered a pair from Hendersons in Ringwood. All the rest I got from Mick Dolphin who had the front Bearing, oil seals etc in stock.  I now await my puller which will reveal whether we need a new shaft. Of course now I have found one side is knackered I will need to check the other. I did forget to mention when cutting out the trunnions, that the metal outer washers had never been installed. This car is truly a bodgers dream. It scares me thinking what I will find next. 

So far.....

too many spacers front of body
Swing spring had no pivot plate or pin, and still had the transit shackle on it
Front wheel bearings made out of different cups and cones
Missing bits on both front and rear trunnions
Missing bushes steering column
Dearched spitfire swingspring which could not take weight of GT6
Wrong Wiper Switch meaning no park
Shot wheels studs (8 of 16 threaded)
Diff had 6 stud mounts, only 4 used other 2 not blocked hence no oil but big puddles
Radius bushes shot... Im using spitty radius arms on rebuild. ( A tip from GT)

Add to this "normal" things like cross threaded bolts/nuts and modern crappy spares and it can quickly send you over the edge. Half of me wants to pull the tub, and measure the chassis in case thats banana, but if I do that it will never move again , as proven by my spitfire. 

Dunno, its just depressing me at the moment. Makes the lotus look like cutting edge engineering!

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I know what you mean.  We found all kinds of stuff like this on our GT6, but although irritating and adding to costs, it was easier to rectify as we always aimed to go in to the last nut and bolt anyway.

I guess the trick is to pick out the things that affect safety, reliability and performance ( you have a good list already!) and deal with those.  The other things then go on your "one day" list with the things that offend you the most at the top.  Some of the things on my "one day" list for the Vitesse have been on there decades......

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Thanks Nick ... you are right of course. I suppose running around spending money I dont have on the Twink and being on a timeframe is clouding the GT6 which is MY car and Ive not touched the Stag in months. 

looking on the upside. Rear end wise

Diff... done
Swing Spring .. done
Bearings....done or will be once they turn up

Front
Wheel Bearings..done
Trunnions...done

Engine...done
Gearbox/OD ...done

MJ done

Carb linkage for webers..done

Shocks being done once bits back....

Steering column bushes...done Wipers done.

What it really needs is a full alignment. I may play with string, but dont really trust myself. 

so really the glass is more than half full.... it does need paint , and I still need to do safety stuff in case I ever hillclimb it. I would like to. Alan gave me loads of advice and I owe it to him to have a go one day. 

Yeah... its not that bad... .we nearly there... Good work Nick. You are a mental health councillor in disguise. The world is wonderful! 

:biggrin:

 

Edited by Bumblebee

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Alignment...…  Yes, makes a massive difference.  I have a home made camber gauge (with a notional caster widget, though I'm a bit dubious of that beyond making sure it's the same both sides) and a tape measure.

When we did Chris's Spit we set that up from scratch with those tools only and it drove very nicely.  When we took it for (expensive) 4 wheel alignment, the operator (whom I've know many years) couldn't find anything to complain about except the front toe which was (intentionally) outside the "book" figures.  He insisted on changing it.  The car drove less well afterwards so we put it back.  Waste of money.

The GT has so far been set the same way.  It drives well.  I need to check the front settings again having changed the dampers and springs so it rides a bit lower, but from the way it drives I don't think it's far out.

Worth a bash yourself IMO.  And experiment.  See what works. The book figures aren't worth much anyway as they are specified with significant weight in the car and no-one ever does that!

One thing we also learnt from the Spit is that wheels and offset make a significant difference to driving manners.  On that we started with Triumph 5" steels (late 1500?) and 175/70 tyres.  It drove really nicely.
Later I got hold of another set of 100+ cross-spokes (same as Vitesse) which are 6J ET13.  These are now fitted to the car with the same tyres as before.  They may look nicer, but the car drove better on the steels.  The steels are on the GT6 now...…  Perfect fit on the front but usual daft narrow-track roto on the rear spoil the look there.  May get some standard 4.5" ones banded to 6" for the rear......

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I've got dodgy Revolutions with the (in)famous offset on at the moment.  I do have a pair of 13 inch Wolfraces and a pair of Supaslots sitting waiting to be shod and they can go on. The offsets are better. (they stick out further for want of a better term) and the supaslots are a touch "wider" than the wolfraces. Might try the supaslots on the back and the wolfraces on the front. 

Got to be better than the Revs. They are on Goodyear Efficient Grip 175/70/13 currently. 

Well once it is all put together I will give it a try by finding a centre line and measuring outwards, then stringing it. There's lots being moved anyhow, with a change to Spit radius arms and thus a change to Spit radius arm mounts on the back, and the front having new springs plus new Konis all round.Front 1 turn rear 1/2 to start. I went 9 inch 450lb and lock wire!  Its never been aligned, it feels drifty at speed, not very confidence inspiring. I did the tracking on the front once, but since then I have had to put a new track rod on one end and it was a different length to the old one for some reason. Pattern parts strike again. I will be shocked if the back end is square let alone set right. The front camber looks excessive due to lowering. Rear camber of course is what it is , with a lowering block of 3/4 inch

My Camber gauge is a clinometer on my phone! I don't understand caster, it makes my head hurt. I am sure it is important but I dont get it. I do know how to move shims to change it though so I can get it ball park and walk away .

I think you have helped me form basis of a plan. Get the back sorted with new bearings, a possible shaft on near side, check and probably do other side too, new trunnions as well both sides, my spit radius arms, bung shocks on front, push out of garage, push back in, get levelled with some tiles to pack then measure it all out with plumb lines and chalk, string it either side and tape measure it all. set cambers on front, set toe on back,  then toe on front to finish. 

List of things for future..... Paint, paint , and possibly get it painted . Box Fuel tank. Actually enjoy driving it for a while. Invent an exhaust mounting system that does not rely on one bobbin exhaust mount to hold the lot up at the back...... yes my fault, yes it did drop, yes it did make the collecter blow, no I'm not happy! I think it needs a couple of mounts tacked on further back to take the weight off the end .

 

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1 hour ago, Bumblebee said:

Actually enjoy driving it for a while

Most important!!

1 hour ago, Bumblebee said:

Invent an exhaust mounting system that does not rely on one bobbin exhaust mount to hold the lot up at the back...... yes my fault, yes it did drop, yes it did make the collecter blow, no I'm not happy!

On the Spit (pre-owned but decent) wheelbarrow system I made brackets to use modern figure of 8 rubbers at the diff (crap picture here, about half way down) http://sideways-technologies.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/7107-chriss-mkiv-basket-case-restored-to-glory/page/4/#comments

and some quite nice bolt on things at the rear (I'll see if I can find a pic when I'm at the right computer).

As regards the poxy 3-1 connection:
- needs modding by slotting each one, and welding tabs on to make clamps (no room for actual clamps)
- need a robust mount from gearbox /bellhousing area to prevent (reduce anyway) system movement flexing the joint
- Ideally I'd suggest a flexi-joint somewhere around the back of the gearbox.

It'll probably still blow after a while but hopefully the interval might go up!

 

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Quick update.

Super tool from Ian Gittings worked brilliantly, and the adaptor he made to pull the bearing carrier is also ace. What a fab bit of kit. Anyhow shafts are off, both shafts are knacked.

So were the UJs on both shafts. Shafts from Fitchetts are now 95 quid a pop incl. Shafts from Canleys are 70 quid incl. Reading Roger's thread David (Jumping Frog) said that the Canley shaft was the same as the Fitchett one. I contacted Canley and they said "Our shafts are made here in Coventry and have been for the last 30 years" 

So based on that I have ordered a pair of shafts from Canley part 155928 which I have typed here in case anyone does a search down the line. I will update with a photo when I get them on the bench. I am using the time to examine the broken self adjusting levers on the brake shoes and see if they can be bodged back to life or if they are terminally broken. Probably the latter. Someone on ebay does replacements, but 48 quid for 2 self adjusters is a bit steep. There is a long brake pedal mind you, although I feel it is more likely to be repro front calipers knocking back too far than anything else. May go on the hunt for some girling ones and rebuild them. Although being a late MK3 they are probably Metric ones.

Meanwhile in Twink land the short engine is finished and is going in this weekend. Then its time in the cams with offset dowels and maths.. Although it may be easier  to put the head on first and time it before chucking it in .

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4 hours ago, Bumblebee said:

more likely to be repro front calipers knocking back too far than anything else

Significant risk of being right about that in my experience.....

 

4 hours ago, Bumblebee said:

Although being a late MK3 they are probably Metric ones.

They should be.  Mine is, and it's roto one.....  Though if you have the repro ones fitted goodness knows what they are! The metric ones are actually easier to find these days.

 

4 hours ago, Bumblebee said:

Although it may be easier  to put the head on first and time it before chucking it in

I would think this would be MUCH easier!

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3 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

I would think this would be MUCH easier!

Yes I agree normally it would be a no brainer. Its just I need to mock up (ie repair) the exhaust manifolds, and I was going to chuck an old head on for the mocking up. But the more I think about it the more it would seem easier to sling the head on first and be able to get to eye level to see the marks. Hours playing with a dial gauge. Ive managed to get TDC marked already, as the stroke is so short there is hardly any dwell time at the top , its virtually instant. Ive also marked the crank for 110 ABDC for the MOP of the inlet and 110 BTDC for the MOP of the exhaust so I can see easily whats going on. I am sure the head skim will mean its out, its just by how much. Then I need to order offset dowels to realign it all. It is quite good fun in its own way. I picked up a crank pulley which has a 36-1 on it and the sensor is in place. I need to invent a TPS mount for the Webers too. 

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This weekend saw the twink go back into the Lotus. First time it has had an engine in it for over 25 years. My youngest built this engine himself, with assistance from Bob the neighbour , and I am posting it here as I am quite proud of him. He struggles away at school (dyslexia issues) but he has put his heart and soul into this . Forgive me therefore posting some shots of his work. Now its in we can work out where to chuck the coil pack for the ignition side of stuff. Note the crank pulley covered in graffiti. TDC MOP inlet MOP exhaust, sensor at TDC and tooth to be removed all written on there. He put the top cover on to see what it looked like. Bob told him how to time the cams and left him to it, with me to help him. The carbs are just resting on the studs whilst we worked out how much room was under them for coil pack mounting. Turns out there's loads. Bob just needs to double check his timing work now and the top can be bolted on and we can mock up the manifolds and plumb it, sort out the wiring from dynamo to alternator, chuck in the management for ignition and get some fuel lines in.

In other news the rear end of the GT6 is all together with new shafts and bolts. Just need to get the grease gun onto the back then the front shocks can go on. I will then attempt to stringline it all into shape.

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:smile: Landmark moment indeed!  Top work - my congratulations and further encouragements to your young man.

You do realise we will require a first fire-up video? :biggrin:

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Well if we get to that stage before the car bankrupts me I will be sure to get a video,  his face will be a picture as and when it fires. It does look quite good in pictures, sadly in "real life" there are plenty of sat in the workshop XXX years scratches, the windscreen needs to come out and go in again, there are no front seats or indeed doors on it, and being a Lotus I imagine about 250 wiring problems will need to be overcome. The headlights have no headlight in them , the vacuums are untested to lift them, the door cards are awful, the seats need foam and the VIN plate is somewhere but no one knows where. BUT... the brakes work, as will the clutch in a day or so once weve invented a clutch line using solid brake line to the chassis then a goodridge MGB brake line to the slave.:biggrin:   Weve ripped the coilpack and crank sensor out of a scrapper Fiesta. It didnt have an EDIS though so I am going to try a Nodiz setup on it and see what happens. Simply as it comes with a ford loom kit so is in theory plug and play. Gonna try and run the coilpack live from the old coil live though to try and convince the RVI tacho to work. 

 

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