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JohnD

Battery that goes four times further?

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Here's one to set the Sidways U Common Room astir!

Facebook is plugging someone who has invented a battery to carry an EV four times further than existing  tec.     The main source seems to be the Daily Mail, which is not reassuring: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7592485/Father-eight-invents-electric-car-battery-drivers-1-500-miles-without-charging-it.html?ito=social-facebook&fbclid=IwAR3eMlsZKlgO5R0EvP2eHYUgebc7Vl8gmJAV5Nn-L_DoLK_vPgGLWUu2qEY

I simply don't beleeeeeeve it!      Unless of course he has tapped into the gridfire of superstrings, and will be a shoo-in for the next Physics Nobel.   But I doubt it.     Science is incremental, it almost never progresses by giant steps, and a four-times increment is just impossible.      Said the Professor of Aeronautics about the Wright Bros.

John

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Well from reading the screed, this is an aluminium-air primary cell not a rechargeable and (by their figures if you believe them) you need to buy a new one every 1500 miles.  That would need a pretty good supply chain and is probably more limiting than having to find a recharging point. Given the amount of well-funded research going into batteries it would be surprising, but not impossible, that this chap has cracked it.  It will be interesting to see if anything comes of it. 

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Mmm I'm sceptical. The papers love an 'eccentric inventor in garden shed' story. If you pay much attention to electric vehicle news you will notice that there is a revolutionary battery breakthrough every couple of months - in a laboratory somewhere. Vanadium flow batteries used to crop up a lot.

The story definitely implies that these will not be rechargeable so would have some interesting problems with deployment. Who knows, maybe that will turn out to be the best solution though - changing batteries rather than charging them. It's been tried before with lithium batteries but never took off (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place_(company)).

The thing about the story I find easiest to believe is that a man with 8 children decides to spend his free time in the shed... 

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....and like so many  crazy/brilliant ideas if it does look promising then you can guarantee that one of the big boys will buy it up and then hide it away

until present day technology gets long in the tooth.

 

Roger 

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Another idea that I was sure was a leg-pull until I read about it, is the "string-cell" concept.

The idea is to have many small batteries, stored at a recharge station, and held on an EV in a tank.    When the EV arrives, the discharged cells are removed and the recharged replace them.   So far so conventional.     What's original is that the egg-shaped cells may be 'poured' into a tank, like refilling one with petrol, a process that is said to take three minutes, so much shorter than recharging a battery that stays in the EV.   Once in place, randomly aligned, the cells work out how to connect to each other, to deliver the output of a solid battery pack.     Yes, sounds classic April Fool!    But it is being pursued:

Who knows what will eventually catch on?

JOhn

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I've been saying it for years the EV solution  seems obvious to me, you have a battery rental agreement, all cars use the same battery Interface. You pull into a warehouse full of charged  batteries, you back up to an empty dock and dump your battery and it swaps that for a fresh one, you go on your way. Simples.

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 At a thousand plus miles interval, maybe. Every 150 - 300...... no.

And have you seen the size of the Tesla battery pack?

I am very interested in EVs and even doing an EV conversion, but soooo expensive to do well.

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1 hour ago, Nick Jones said:

 At a thousand plus miles interval, maybe. Every 150 - 300...... no.

And have you seen the size of the Tesla battery pack?

I am very interested in EVs and even doing an EV conversion, but soooo expensive to do well.

200 makita batteries should do it.

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4 hours ago, Chippy63 said:

I've been saying it for years the EV solution  seems obvious to me, you have a battery rental agreement, all cars use the same battery Interface. You pull into a warehouse full of charged  batteries, you back up to an empty dock and dump your battery and it swaps that for a fresh one, you go on your way. Simples.

That has been tried (see link in my post above) and it may well come back round again with more success. Obviously it's hard to get firms to standardise their batteries and access to them. Especially when the battery is spread over the floor of the whole vehicle like the Teslas. 

A workmate was telling me that Renault lease the battery when you buy a Zoe, so you own the car but the battery is rented and Renault will replace it if it's charge capacity drops too far. Not just when it's flat, though!

A problem with the swappable battery concept (maybe only a problem in my head) is that most of the value and technology is in the battery - it's much more analogous to the engine in your Triumph than to the fuel tank. The electric motors are humdrum cheapo things in comparison. A battery's performance and lifespan depends very heavily on how it's been treated. If no-one owns them it's possible they'll all be thrashed and run down to zero all the time, so won't last as long as they should.

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8 minutes ago, PeteStupps said:

That has been tried (see link in my post above) and it may well come back round again with more success. Obviously it's hard to get firms to standardise their batteries and access to them. Especially when the battery is spread over the floor of the whole vehicle like the Teslas. 

A workmate was telling me that Renault lease the battery when you buy a Zoe, so you own the car but the battery is rented and Renault will replace it if it's charge capacity drops too far. Not just when it's flat, though!

A problem with the swappable battery concept (maybe only a problem in my head) is that most of the value and technology is in the battery - it's much more analogous to the engine in your Triumph than to the fuel tank. The electric motors are humdrum cheapo things in comparison. A battery's performance and lifespan depends very heavily on how it's been treated. If no-one owns them it's possible they'll all be thrashed and run down to zero all the time, so won't last as long as they should.

It will probably be just as bad for the battery if its driven once a week down the shop by Miss Daisy batteries like to be used, but i get your point. I wonder how much the range will drop in sub zero temps batteries dont like that either.

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4 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

I am very interested in EVs and even doing an EV conversion, but soooo expensive to do well.

Are you thinking of a full Triumph EV conversion Nick?? I keep examining options for a hybrid. Honda did an interesting thing with the flywheel being an electric motor, which also replaced the starter motor. That's quite neat, giving you a load of torque at low RPM and a little bit of regen. They only used small capacity batteries but no reason you couldn't fill the boot with batteries.

Alternatively the other option would be one of the FWD models - keep the petrol driving the front wheels but stick an electric motor in the boot driving the rear end. 0-60 in 5 seconds would be a laugh. 

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The battery packs often include the charging and management systems and could presumably be made abuse resistant.

At current tech levels they either tend to be distributed around the car (no discrete pack to swap) or a very large unit with fairly numerous connections including liquid cooling.  Of course, the OP was about a technology that is not rechargeable which maybe simplifies?

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1 minute ago, Chippy63 said:

It will probably be just as bad for the battery if its driven once a week down the shop by Miss Daisy batteries like to be used, but i get your point. I wonder how much the range will drop in sub zero temps batteries dont like that either.

Yeah cold weather is a real problem - not just for the battery capacity but you need to use them to warm the car up! Not so much waste heat from an EV.

Lithium batteries degrade much more quickly if they are charged or discharged at high rates, and at the extremes of the capacity (e.g. above 95% full or below 15%) - so thrashing along at full power degrades the battery more quickly than pottering about in town, and super-fast recharging also degrades the battery more quickly than slow charging. By 'degrade' I mean the chemistry is damaged, so you can't get as much power or energy out of the battery next time. 

If I owned an EV I'd charge it at the lowest power possible as often as I could! 

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Keep coming back to an electric GT6. Engine and OD issues not helping.  Obviously the main issue is the loss of the noise...... and the need for a tow bar for the range extender-generator trailer.

FWD hybrid with electric rear is interesting. Or just swap out the original engine for a hybrid lump - was never that impressed with FWD power train

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I was talking to an woman who is a real classic enthusiasts down my local sunday breakfast meet and she is having a toyota prius engine and drive train fitted into her vw camper. When i asked her if she would retain the steering of the wheels so she could have crab steering she liked the idea but said no it was a bit to complicated.

 

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