Sepsis

[PeterC]

Once again sepsis is in the news. It kills 50,000 in UK per year: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-48749985

I stack the odds in my favour by taking vitamin D3 supplements to bring my serum level of 25(OH)D3 to physiological ( 100-120 nmol/L) . More here:

https://vitamindwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page_id=1855

Around 2000 to 4000 IU D3 per day will acheive that.

"Slip, slap, slop" prevents synthesis of D3 by the skin. and a large percntage of the global population is well below physiological blood level of D3. 20 minutes of full body miidday sun will generate 10,000 IU per side, so 4000 is not excessive. High doses up to 50,000 IU pd have recently been shown to be safe, in a 10 year study,  from blood calcium rises.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960076018306228#bib0410

To me, prevention is better than an uncertain cure.

Peter

 

[JohnD]

No argument, Peter, but you must know how important context is.    Here, the same report found that three-quarters of cases DID receive correct treatment within the hour.    The other quarter of cases should not happen, but you are far more likely than not to be properly treated.

 

As

[RogerH]

Hi JOhn,

they were saying on the news that you need to get treatment started within the hour.

The UCC department waiting time at my West London Hospital is 4 to 5 hours.  When does the one hour treatment time start.?

 

Roger

 

[oldtuckunder]

hopefully like the brexit deadline never  

[PeterC]

2 hours ago, JohnD said:

No argument, Peter, but you must know how important context is.    Here, the same report found that three-quarters of cases DID receive correct treatment within the hour.    The other quarter of cases should not happen, but you are far more likely than not to be properly treated.

 

John, But 50,000 were failures that could very likely have been prevented if the population had adequate serum D3, and better still physiological D3 ( 100-120nmol/L). The risk of overdoing D3 supplements has been over-estimated for decades, as this very recent paper describes:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960076018306228#bib0410

Around 2000 to 4000IU per day will achieve physiological serum 25(OH)D3.  I take 18,000 for other reasons, but again based upon the science.

Peter

[PeterC]

52 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Hi JOhn,

they were saying on the news that you need to get treatment started within the hour.

The UCC department waiting time at my West London Hospital is 4 to 5 hours.  When does the one hour treatment time start.?

 

Roger

 

 

4 minutes ago, PeterC said:

John, But 50,000 were failures that could very likely have been prevented if the population had adequate serum D3, and better still physiological D3 ( 100-120nmol/L). The risk of overdoing D3 supplements has been over-estimated for decades, as this very recent paper describes:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960076018306228#bib0410

Around 2000 to 4000IU per day will achieve physiological serum 25(OH)D3.  I take 18,000 for other reasons, but again based upon the science.

Peter

Serum levels:   To convert ng/ml in that paper to UK units of nmol/L multiply by 2.5. So 100 ng/ml = 250 nmol/L

 

[PeterC]

59 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Hi JOhn,

they were saying on the news that you need to get treatment started within the hour.

The UCC department waiting time at my West London Hospital is 4 to 5 hours.  When does the one hour treatment time start.?

 

Roger

 

Hi Roger, I've offered Wayne via office a D3 talk to the IWE for the sunday morning. But no response.  Do you know if there are any seminars planned ? Peter

[PaulAA]

I came across sepsis a few years ago, when a colleague narrowly survived it.  Then my brother-in-law succumbed to it two years ago, when it rapidly progressed from being a minor stomach infection to a catastrophic descent into multiple organ failure and a week on life support.  My sister was advised that the chances of survival were slim, but, after six weeks in hospital and six months of recuperation, he made a 95% recovery and is now largely back to normal.

Two things astonished me.  Firstly, that the onset was so rapid and aggressive - from a post-lunch stomach upset, he was in intensive care by midnight.  And secondly, that neither he nor my two sisters, all of whom are qualified and practicing nurses, knew anything about sepsis or its signs.

He freely admits that he was extremely lucky and owes his survival to superb medical care, but he is experienced in communicable diseases (he is never to be seen touching his face and is a frequent hand-washer), so where did the infection come from?

If overloading with D3 offers some form of (albeit inconclusive) protection, it seems a worthwhile effort to make.  It is a truly horrible disease.

Paul

[PeterC]

23 minutes ago, PaulAA said:

I came across sepsis a few years ago, when a colleague narrowly survived it.  Then my brother-in-law succumbed to it two years ago, when it rapidly progressed from being a minor stomach infection to a catastrophic descent into multiple organ failure and a week on life support.  My sister was advised that the chances of survival were slim, but, after six weeks in hospital and six months of recuperation, he made a 95% recovery and is now largely back to normal.

Two things astonished me.  Firstly, that the onset was so rapid and aggressive - from a post-lunch stomach upset, he was in intensive care by midnight.  And secondly, that neither he nor my two sisters, all of whom are qualified and practicing nurses, knew anything about sepsis or its signs.

He freely admits that he was extremely lucky and owes his survival to superb medical care, but he is experienced in communicable diseases (he is never to be seen touching his face and is a frequent hand-washer), so where did the infection come from?

If overloading with D3 offers some form of (albeit inconclusive) protection, it seems a worthwhile effort to make.  It is a truly horrible disease.

Paul

Hi Paul,

No need to "overload", for a youngish person one capsule of 2000 IU will bring blood level to physiological, 4000 for the elderly. That is more than we get in diet (UK typically 200 IU pd) or from sun if we slip,slap,slop. But it is safe: PHE advise up to 4000 IU is OK.

My son in law also had a narrow escape when his wife spotted the signs and drove him ( halucinating) to A&E at 3am. He had no wounds/stings/bites that could have caused the infection, but did have a dental scale and polish 2 weeks prior......   

Peter

[RogerH]

Hi Pete,

haven't a clue about any seminars. The only thing mentioned is the Oky Koky that is the concourse. It is now in on

I'll investigate

 

Roger

[Nick B.]

Quite a hot topic - also in todays JAMA

 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2737808?guestAccessKey=f86999a7-8dfb-4094-a594-56c9e25329e6&utm_source=fbpage&utm_medium=social_jama&utm_term=2445184190&utm_content=followers-article_engagement-tfl-illustration_medical&utm_campaign=article_alert&linkId=69959292&fbclid=IwAR0XE48dhyTx0zIMDyroGsEthBwlaHL2lBJxoaY0bUTOzv4CwbyK8Pg09Ig

 

 

[MilesA]

Terrible infection. Husband of friend was rendered permanently quadriplegic. I only take 2000 IU during the winter - perhaps I should carry on.

Prof.  - disappointing lack of response to your offer of a talk. Always interesting, whatever the subject.

Miles

[PeterC]

2 hours ago, Nick B. said:

Quite a hot topic - also in todays JAMA

 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2737808?guestAccessKey=f86999a7-8dfb-4094-a594-56c9e25329e6&utm_source=fbpage&utm_medium=social_jama&utm_term=2445184190&utm_content=followers-article_engagement-tfl-illustration_medical&utm_campaign=article_alert&linkId=69959292&fbclid=IwAR0XE48dhyTx0zIMDyroGsEthBwlaHL2lBJxoaY0bUTOzv4CwbyK8Pg09Ig

 

 

That's C not D.

But the logic of using high dose C to fight bugs is sound: C plus iron is a potent generator of oxygen free radicals that will kill bugs (faster than it dmages our cells). Normal doses of C is an anti-oxidant and protects tissues/

I'd like to see very high dose D3  bolus trialled in sepsis. It works with infkuenza, and that paper I cited above shows high dose daily D3 combating TB. As antibioltics continue to lose potency we desperately need an alternative approach.I reckon that will include D3 supplementation at population level, but I'm not expecting that soon. 

Peter

[PeterC]

1 hour ago, MilesA said:

Terrible infection. Husband of friend was rendered permanently quadriplegic. I only take 2000 IU during the winter - perhaps I should carry on.

Prof.  - disappointing lack of response to your offer of a talk. Always interesting, whatever the subject.

Miles

Hi Miles,

Yes I would carry on. If you sunbathe without slip slap slop you'd get 10,000 IU on one side in 20 min in summer. If face and arms only are exposed you'll get about one tenth of that acccording to surface area. :Longer than 20 min does not make more ! - as the skin store of the cholesterol precursor gets depleted.  Slip, slap, slop kills D3 production by sunlight. Supplementing 2000 IU pd is safe, and elderly can safely go up to 4000 according to Publc Health England  ( oldies make less D3 from sun and take up less from diet).

I've been taking 10,000 IU pd for over a year and have raised that to 18,000 a month ago , for the Parkinson's.

There are genetic polymorphisms ( mutations) in the vitmain d receptors and in the CYP enzymes that generate active D3 in liver and tissues that might mean soem of us need more D3 than others. That 50,000 pa who succume to sepsis may have had low blood lelvle and unfavourable genetics.

Re Stratford. Maybe I'll offer the talks to TSCC !!

Peter