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I’ve just managed at last to get a set of pi manifolds,with a log so I’m now in the process of exploring the EFI route 

I’m just wondering what’s stopping me just buying everything of a bmw 6 pot and using it apart from the manifolds.

ie the ECU and all the wiring and sensors,just seems a lot cheaper way as opposed to buying a MegaSquirt system. The firing order is the same on both engines. I’m not bothered about having a fully programmable Ecu,I just want it to run ok 

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Hi Dave,

Welcome to Sideways........ :smile:

What seems like a simple question probably has a very complicated answer.  The answer might be yes if you chose the right BMW from the right era.  But that in itself could be quite a challenge.  The later the donor car you choose the more integrated the engine ECU with be with security systems, networked with other ECUs and expecting more complex emissions systems.

A partial answer to that question might be found

http://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/118875/1969-triumph-2000-mk1

http://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/196449/wiring-bmw-m52-foreign-car

Andy Boris put a complete BMW M52 into a 2000 and used the BMW ECU.  Some assistance was needed from experts to deal with the security system IIRC

As for running ok..... well, it might.  But you won't know until you try it and if it doesn't...... then what?

I really don't see the objection to using an aftermarket ECU.  There are quite few choices now from Speeduino (several forms of that), various Megasquirt offerings and then into the lower end manufactured systems.  

Nick

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Nick

My main thinking was purely cost,£50 for a ecu as opposed to £300-£400 or more for a programmable one like MegaSquirt or emerald etc,

ive started to scan various sites/places to acquire bits and bobs I’ll be needing but I’m only going by lists on here and James curuthers list. I know it might not be easily done but I’m hoping to end up with a system that looks a bit different. Don’t want use a common fuel rail linking all the injectors I want to have a small hoses going to each injector so it looks like a standard pi setup. Thinking of a small tube about 2 inches with the six hoses coming off of it,if that makes sense 

 

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8 minutes ago, Davemate said:

Don’t want use a common fuel rail linking all the injectors I want to have a small hoses going to each injector so it looks like a standard pi setup

You are making a rod for your own back........ Main problem will be finding injectors that take hoses rather than push-on to fuel rail.  They do exist but only on old stuff - Some Jags (XJ6 / XJS from the dawn of electronic injection) and some old GM stuff - Carlton/Senator/Monza with the old straight 6 3L.  They won't be very easy to find and not sure the flow rates will be any use to you.  Does get you off making a fuel rail though, so not all bad news.

As regards ECU costs, while you may be able to pick up a BMW ECU, loom and sensors for £ 50 (or even a complete running MoT failed car to break and sell the bits you don't want) you may find you do have to pay out to get it modded to bypass the security system, run stand-alone, which will add to the cost.  And then you come back to the fact that there is no particular reason why it'll run your Triumph engine correctly as it's mapped for a BMW one - and you're not going to be able to change it - not without paying a mapping specialist anyway.  What sort of era BMW are you thinking of?  Anything later than mid 90s is going to have sensors and features you don't want.  You also need to think about how they handle the ignition side and what you want to do about ignition.  In my opinion, passing up the opportunity to have mappable coil-pack ignition would be a major loss.  Brings as big gains as the injection itself.

MS1 version 2.2 kits start at just under $200.  They are fairly basic but should do everything you need (possible exception of barometric correction) and if you can solder and follow instructions, you should be able to build it.  My son is looking into this very thing right now and seriously considering Speeduino ECU options - they seem really cheap.

As regards reading...... I do have a couple of books somewhere but they really weren't much help.  What helped enormously was the megasquirt megamanual as it has lots of  general information in it explaining the theory, what the sensors do and so on.  It's big though.....

http://www.megamanual.com/MSFAQ.htm

 

 

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Hi Dave,
 

On 6/20/2019 at 7:33 PM, Davemate said:

I’ve just managed at last to get a set of pi manifolds,with a log so I’m now in the process of exploring the EFI route 

I'm converting a 2500TC to EFI myself also using the pi manifolds.
I have found and purchased the manifolds but have yet to find a decently priced log, where did you find yours?

On 6/20/2019 at 7:33 PM, Davemate said:

I’m just wondering what’s stopping me just buying everything of a bmw 6 pot and using it apart from the manifolds.

ie the ECU and all the wiring and sensors,just seems a lot cheaper way as opposed to buying a MegaSquirt system. The firing order is the same on both engines. I’m not bothered about having a fully programmable Ecu,I just want it to run ok 

Like Nick already explained there are a lot of pitfalls when using an OEM ECU.
If you use the BMW ECU as an example, it will not have the correct settings for your engine. firing order is one, but fairly trivial compared the the others.
My guess is there will be a lot more hidden costs with an OEM ECU, because you will be forced to do things a certain way.(transplanting the entire BMW engine complete with ecu will be easier than trying to make the BMW ecu work with your engine.
My advice would be to either buy a speeduino or megasquirt, because it will be cheaper in the long run.

 

10 hours ago, Davemate said:

Don’t want use a common fuel rail linking all the injectors I want to have a small hoses going to each injector so it looks like a standard pi setup. Thinking of a small tube about 2 inches with the six hoses coming off of it,if that makes sense 

Just be aware you might run into issues if you are going with this setup.
First point is the hot fuel near the injectors won't be recirculated into the fuel tank, which could cause fuel bubbling in the lines, overheating injectors etc.
Secondly how are you going to control the fuel pressure?
The fuel pressure regulator needs to be after the injectors.
So you will still need unsightly fuel lines after the injectors or run a PWM control module for the fuel pump, adding complexity and cost.

I don't like the big aluminium fuel rail others are using either and am thinking about using BMW E46 fuel rail, injectors and connectors.
https://browse.startpage.com/do/show_picture.pl?l=english&rais=1&oiu=http%3A%2F%2Fi1005.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf178%2FMaverick--%2FThe%20Chop%20Shop%2F303-BV62694.jpg&sp=d3ec9d7f6a56953554225b0978640f0b&t=default&hotlinkfix=1561188070695

The fuel rail will have to be cut and wleded to size, but isn't as big, comes with the fuel pressure regulator attached, has a small return pipe alongside the rectangular tube and is cheap.
The one I bought was only 16UKP including  injectors, connectors, wiring and delivery.

Using your idea of the small hoses going to each injector, you could hide the wiring in those.

11 hours ago, Davemate said:

Are there any home/diy efi books available that I can buy 

A decent first book is, though it is fairly basic IMHO.

https://www.amazon.com/Performance-Fuel-Injection-Systems-HP1557-ebook/dp/B003QMLC5Q/ref=pd_sim_351_2/139-8946951-3069136?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B003QMLC5Q&pd_rd_r=8595c52d-94bf-11e9-bd6b-53c94f03e832&pd_rd_w=uGhW1&pd_rd_wg=zmFfb&pf_rd_p=a098ee4c-2e0f-4821-b463-d4b049053104&pf_rd_r=E09Q2121W0RQTPQWFQG4&psc=1&refRID=E09Q2121W0RQTPQWFQG4

These 2 books go into tuning much deeper.

https://www.amazon.com/Designing-Tuning-High-Performance-Injection-Systems-ebook/dp/B00B77AMYY/ref=pd_sim_351_1/139-8946951-3069136?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00B77AMYY&pd_rd_r=894845e0-94bf-11e9-836e-f5a9254bf257&pd_rd_w=3SlyT&pd_rd_wg=YfMck&pf_rd_p=a098ee4c-2e0f-4821-b463-d4b049053104&pf_rd_r=2X5BCGC63R3T3THVX6RH&psc=1&refRID=2X5BCGC63R3T3THVX6RH

https://www.amazon.com/Engine-Management-Advance-Greg-Banish-ebook/dp/B009K4B66O/ref=pd_sim_351_1/139-8946951-3069136?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B009K4B66O&pd_rd_r=b0f0b529-94bf-11e9-9e03-b199d7ed47b8&pd_rd_w=f1Si4&pd_rd_wg=CUrUU&pf_rd_p=a098ee4c-2e0f-4821-b463-d4b049053104&pf_rd_r=JFQ3700C9A89H4THRDE6&psc=1&refRID=JFQ3700C9A89H4THRDE6

Don't get the books written by Jeff Hartman, the 2 above are better IMHO.

One comment I will have to make on Nick's suggestion of reading the megamanual is that if you are going with the megasquirt platform and are going to use the extra code, is to NOT use the megamanual at all once you start assembling the ecu! Or you will highly confuse yourself. The extra code does things differently both at the hardware and software level.

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I cannot offer an experienced alternative, but there are others to a BMW ECU.      The MegaSquirt has a wide online support community (http://www.msextra.com/forums/) and the Emerald was marketed by Dave Walker, the engine tuner, who wrote a Haynes book on how to use it.   Now out of print, but available: https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/142944261890?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-&mkcid=2&itemid=142944261890&targetid=595627703433&device=c&adtype=pla&googleloc=1006854&poi=&campaignid=1880881370&adgroupid=65515550610&rlsatarget=aud-739442097805:pla-595627703433&abcId=1140496&merchantid=6995734&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI466aoOz84gIVbZPtCh0Bawn_EAQYASABEgLeoPD_BwE

Oops - Nick mentioned MegaSquirt!

John

 

 

Edited by JohnD

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On 6/20/2019 at 6:33 PM, Davemate said:

I’ve just managed at last to get a set of pi manifolds,with a log so I’m now in the process of exploring the EFI route 

I’m just wondering what’s stopping me just buying everything of a bmw 6 pot and using it apart from the manifolds.

ie the ECU and all the wiring and sensors,just seems a lot cheaper way as opposed to buying a MegaSquirt system. The firing order is the same on both engines. I’m not bothered about having a fully programmable Ecu,I just want it to run ok 

Problem is you need to use sensors, injectors, wheels etc you can make fit / even work. In my experience THESE NEVER COME FROM THE SAME TYPE / MAKE OF VEHICLE. Lot of part cherrypicking.

Laurence

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SpitNL

sorry for not replying before now but been busy organising some personal things due to a death in the family 

i got my log with the manifolds so unable to suggest anything other than eBay or forums 

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Like the others have suggested with the BMW ECU I would imagine you will be in a world of hurt with tuning it for a different engine.

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Although there is a guy i know who has fitted several flapper rover ecus and hardware to a stag engine and made it work however it was far from ideal and most have be converted to Megasquirt now i think.

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Sorry for posting the above picture but I’m trying to work out how to post pictures. Seems I’ve only half done it. I used to use photobucket but since they now charge I’m looking for an alternative. Google thing doesn’t appear to give the ULR——-ULR so only the link is seen what does everyone use now days ?

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It’s not how to post on here it’s what site do you get your file link from 

on photobucket when once you put a picture on photobucket you clicked “link” and you had a choice of how you shared the picture “url-url”for forums and other formats for email etc. As you can see above I’ve posted a link ok so as you say it’s easy enough but as you can also see there’s no picture posted,it’s only a link to the picture 

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Here you go Dave, make it easy on yourself.    I went to your link, right-clicked on the picture, selected "Copy", came back here right clicked and selcted Paste.  Four clicks.

What could be simpler?  John

mktCfA2hBiuB8g9uV2hmNo2YT102G6GKRW7yhJEUCwbdxs8DwP2uHnlXbTyb59SCjRpWIhUJqJUdcHbIWLyGCP6dzhbXciF50pprHH6g1UmuIbZmfuj7MvZtUqoGoTCgqtpkjNZAGA=w703-h937-no

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