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Mark

Rotoflex Adjustable Wishbone with Anti Roll Bar

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Went to an autojumble and bought a pair of adjustable rotoflex wishbones with an anti roll bar that bolts to each wishbone and aparently fixes to the chassis. Initially I  thought they were home made, but the closer I looked I could see that there was more to these than I first thought, and more like a well made kit. Vendor said they were Triumph Tune items and that they were listed in their catalogue. I did have an old catalogue late 80's but binned it by mistake with a load of CCC mags.

Anyone got an old TT catalogue with any info. I'll upload some photos when I get a chance.

 

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I do have an old TT catalogue though I don't recall the items you describe.  Pics would help.

I did once own (briefly) a complete pair of SAH Tite-a-Turn rear driveshafts which could be described as "mock rotoflex" though they may have predated rotoflex to be fair.

They had adjustable lower wishbones, though I doubt they'd be mistaken for actual rotoflex ones.  I had been thinking about putting them on my Herald but the engineering quality was just so dire, hopeless, appalling etc I decided I like the swing axles better.  Happily I found a buyer so enamoured of all things SAH that he bought them anyway.

A friend at the time and successful sometime  Spitfire racer in the TSSC series made some tubular lower wishbones, 1" longer, adjustable and with ARB mounts to go along with his stretched  (2" wider track) roto rear end.  They were really rather lovely (he was a welder/fabricator by trade) and I do wonder what happened to that car - and the man himself for that matter.

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Like these?

Fabricated and fitted to SofS.  Now replaced by a stronger version - see pic 2

Jon's wishbones.jpg

P1030594.JPG

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Actually looking at them again they would probably fail the rotoflex coupling, just straight not curved, so confused. Single spherical bearing chassis end rubber bushes hub end. Brackets bolted to the wishbones for the roll bar to attach to. Was told they were fitted to a gt6. I'll take some photos tomorrow.

Edited by Mark
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Possibly intended for use with the sliding spline/UJ driveshaft conversion that cropped up  occasionally. So could work with a CV shaft too.

 

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Here's a pic. Could this be part of the SAH Tite-a-Turn kit you mentioned? I do have TLD sliding shafts on the Vitesse purchased off of here years ago. I bought some tube a couple of years ago to make some wish bones up but not got around to it. Saw these the other day and was intrigude,  but not knowing exactly what they were didn't want to pass them by, so took a chance. I've not seen nothing like these before.

IMG_7013.jpg

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Those look a bit agricultural (almost DIY!)  Are they re-purposed front upper wishbones?

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Now seen on a decent sized screen and I'm 99% sure they are part of an SAH tite-a-turn set.  Sorry if this wasn't the news you wanted!

The wishbones are indeed re-purposed front uppers.  The set I had came from a gentleman who got them on a Mk1 GT6 he bought.  He was initially pleased to see them.  4 rotoflexes and at least two sets of wheel bearings in very few miles later he refitted swing axles.  The rotos used were Imp ones (woefully undersized) and fitted without any compression (ie you took the bands off to fit them) so had no chance of the survival.  The wheelbearings were two swing axle style ball races fitted in a machined aluminium housing (hard bolted to an adapted standard vertical link) and had no side load capacity at all, leading to interesting and rapid failure.....  Absolute tat.....

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When I initially saw them I thought they were a  DIY job,  cut down triumph wishbones, but the more I looked I could se they were definitely not made using cut down small chassis Triumph parts. They are not symmetrical and totally different width and shape to the small Triumph front upper and lower wishbones. Cant find any reference for the SAH tite-a-turn so if anyones got any pics or links, would be good. Here's a close up compared to Triumph upper wishbones.

IMG_7045.jpg

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The plot thickens!  Perhaps they were never lower wishbones per se but a variation on the 'camber compensator' theme.

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They look like TR4 TR4A top wishbones. They are handed and marked R and L depending which way up they are.

see pic

C363C75D-4B4C-4B50-A339-F07DBB24A305.jpeg

Edited by Hamish
Added pic

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That looks like it Hamish. One side anyway has The R on one side and L on the reverse, the other has no markings and is slightly different, but probably out of the Triumph parts bin. 

I am sure Nicks right, that this is part of an SAH set up. Don't think I can make any use of it for my purpose, may offer if up, but unanswered questions on overall dimentions adjustment bushes, etc. So probably go ahead with making my own.

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If you want roto lower wishbones...…  just bring a van...…  standard cast ones that is!

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1 hour ago, Mark said:

That looks like it Hamish. One side anyway has The R on one side and L on the reverse, the other has no markings and is slightly different, but probably out of the Triumph parts bin. 

I am sure Nicks right, that this is part of an SAH set up. Don't think I can make any use of it for my purpose, may offer if up, but unanswered questions on overall dimentions adjustment bushes, etc. So probably go ahead with making my own.

Yes they were a different shape and only one had the R and L stamping. The other whilst not marked is still part of the designed pair.

The marked one always went on the front with the correct letter uppermost to match the right or left side of the car. This I understand was part of the castor that was introduced to the later 4s with angled and handed trunnions. This gave castor and camber.

 

Edited by Hamish

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Realise it's a while since the last posting but I can add a little info.

The wishbones are TR 4-6 upper wishbones as also fitted to Reliant Scimitars, like my 6A.

The ARB looks very similar to one that Moss/Triumphtune sold 'back in the day' with versions for the various iterations of small Triumph. I have one that looks almost identical fitted on the back of a Spitfire conversion I did in the 1980s.

On the rotoflex versions the centre mounts bolted through the chassis rails using a 'square' U-bolt (if you can call it that) that was threaded very carefully through pre-drilled holes. There were small flat brackets like those above that bolted into holes drilled into the rotoflex wishbone. Worked reasonably well. I believe the swing axle version was intended to bolt through the chassis extensions fitted to the later US spec cars so on cars without these they bolted directly to the boot floor. With the expected medium turn results. The outer ends used angle brackets that were attached to the lower shock mount. The catalogue picture shows the bar straight in the middle but it actually came with the bulge to go over the exhaust.

Incidentally I still have that 1980s conversion. I did over 200,000 miles in it as a daily driver and occasional sprint/hillclimb car for 20 years. Based on a 1965 Mk2 with a 2.5 six and a full glasfibre bodyshell, doors, bonnet, etc made from a set of my own moulds. Regular customer of Mr John Kipping for rebuilt gearboxes and differentials. Currenly gathering mould on my driveway!

The Tite-A-Turn conversion was ancient legend even then and I only ever saw one Herald with it fitted.

I've attached the relevant page from the 1980s Triumphtune manual showing the ARB part no TT3787. Price £68.50.

IMG_20191004_0001.pdf

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Thanks for the info. I do remember an ARB being offered that bolted to the boot floor on the Spit, that was probably in the eighties. Still not found any pics or details of the Tite-a-turn set up offered by SAH but am pretty sure that the pieces I have form part of the kit.

I like the sound of your modified mk2 spit, sounds like you carried out lots mods and work and any pics?

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Hi Mark

Does look like what I remember as the Tite-a-turn

I think I have a few pictures but will have to scan them in as all this was done in the days of 'real film' before the thought of having a phone on your camera was as daft has having a torch on it. What would have been the point anyway as the wire would have been too short!

Short sequence of me sprinting the car in the rain. Paddock bend at Kames, Muirkirk south of Glasgow around 1998-2000. Mk3 bumpers as I couldn't find any Mk 2 ones when I built the car!

Just noticed that you can just see the ends of the rear anti-roll bar links in front of the back wheels in a couple of the pics. And the thin front anti roll bar too. Never liked the handling with the late thicker one.

Sprint1.thumb.jpg.cb8dce7d086f220e6946ad4cd2f3f530.jpgSprint2.thumb.jpg.a823b8589ac8848c9868de4e0d8487ad.jpgSprint3.thumb.jpg.71883712873e15a92e317b1034ae2c1b.jpgSprint4.thumb.jpg.97fd3962ad13358695588b23a5efad50.jpgSprint5.thumb.jpg.341200644f1144b793ee341f15e9d7d7.jpgSprint6.thumb.jpg.54a37cbdebbf51fbe4e0d39a9575c70e.jpgSprint7.thumb.jpg.28eaf1e84fd50f7cb2fa8b9b41281cb9.jpgSprint8.thumb.jpg.106a6865a3763c620d4b4a8cce584942.jpgSprint9.thumb.jpg.73e145a6cde0ade0f50103feddd422cb.jpg

 

 

 

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That arb is definitely a bar that Triumph Tune sold in the late 80s....cannot remember the name of the American company that made them...ASCO or something like that. I had one fitted to my GT6 mk2 c/w with the original dia front arb. It was ok, but I never noticed a massive difference so got rid.

Now running a Spit 1500 arb with rose jointed links from Jon Wolfe...yep, I love understeer!

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ADDCO.  Imagine my dismay when I ordered one from TT in 1981 and it was identical to the ADDCO I wanted to replace LOL  Come to think of it, I still have a nice little Tuning manual ADDCO produced back in the day.  I wonder if it would be worth scanning into archives somewhere?

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15 minutes ago, GT6Steve said:

I wonder if it would be worth scanning into archives somewhere

You want to scan it, we'll find a way to get it on here.  I find my work  iphone is my main scanner these days.  I have a selection of stuff from Alan that needs to be organised somehow too......

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10 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

You want to scan it, we'll find a way to get it on here.  I find my work  iphone is my main scanner these days.  I have a selection of stuff from Alan that needs to be organised somehow too......

Hello Nick

                  Is that the same stuff I have on the memory stick?

Roger

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When I built Silverback, I added an adjustable rear antiroll bar.      The bar was from a Peugot 205.    After a season and a half, I took it off, as it appeared to give no advantage.

Ok, that might mean that my engineering was crap, but I've not had one since and not  regretted it.

John

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