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Following on from John ,the e-mail address for our consultation is still active and anyone wishing to contact us on that is more than welcome  and I'm sure one of us will try and explain what is happening .

Darren's situation was not part of our remit for this exercise therefore we had no influence on it, which does not mean we were unconcerned about the whole situation but had to concentrate on the job in hand.

As Roger and Janner have said the best way to achieve any change within the club is to work from within to try and influence management's thinking. Better still formulate the direction in which you wish the club to go ,then volunteer for election at the AGM as Roger did. Unless members are prepared to step forward to take on management roles there can be no choices and the status quo will be maintained.

Brian

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1 hour ago, chippieman said:

Brian, Tim and Stan

have all tried to explain via this thread that things have changed,

but it seems that there is, 'None so blind as those who will not see'

If anyone wishes to learn, then my contact details are in the back of TR Action.

John.

John, 

I and many others, here and elsewhere, would be delighted if "things have changed".   But even the blind could see that they haven't.     The restrictive rules remain, to be altered some time but sine die, according to your post.  Justice delayed is justice denied, to misuse another lawyers' saying.

When, if that happens I shall be glad for the re-expansion of Triumph world.     Each Triumph site and community has its' own value, and to have the TRR one isolated by over-regulation is a loss to all.  Until then, I withdraw my custom from the TRR - I'm in no position to volunteer for office, even if, as Groucho almost said, they would have me.  

The proposed creation of a 'World' Group of the TRR is welcome, but irrelevant to this overriding matter.

John

Edited by JohnD
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3 hours ago, Neil T said:

One point,how can it be healthy for a dealer to be a moderator? still

 

2 hours ago, PeterC said:

Hi Neil,  Yes I did wonder if it could be bad for business.  Peter

 

Gents

I'm somewhat confused as to how being a dealer and a mod, could be a conflict

Help me out

John

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39 minutes ago, Janner said:

 

 

Gents

I'm somewhat confused as to how being a dealer and a mod, could be a conflict

Help me out

John

"The customer is always right" doesn't sit happily with a dealer taking action against a forumite.

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What absolute tripe!

No Mod acts alone, we work as a team, and the mod in question

has been beyond reproach in all his comments/actions.

Just folk with an axe to grind, stirring the preverbial,

far better if you have nothing good to write then write nothing.

John.

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I'm sorry you were diverted by that matter, John.   Perhaps you will address the Rules, how and when they will be changed to make them acceptable to all.

You original post was uninformative on that, which is the major hindrance to progress, because revison should allow all concerned to return to the tent, preferably using the appointed latrine.

John

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25 minutes ago, JohnD said:

I'm sorry you were diverted by that matter, John.   Perhaps you will address the Rules, how and when they will be changed to make them acceptable to all.

You original post was uninformative on that, which is the major hindrance to progress, because revison should allow all concerned to return to the tent, preferably using the appointed latrine.

John

Hi John,

 it isn't just the 'Forum Review Team' that make the actual changes. Wayne is also involved and he tends to be very busy doing 'everything'

Give them a little slack.

 

Roger

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1 hour ago, JohnD said:

  Perhaps you will address the Rules, how and when they will be changed to make them acceptable to all.

John

Acceptable to all. ?!

that is a big ask in anyone’s book.  

Either it will be acceptable and individuals can return or not.

 

Either way we can still accept the hospitality of this sideways forum.

H  

 

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John,

There have been changes to the forum rules that have been presented to the MT and approved by them so things have happened . The Forum Team does not have access to the forum software that allows these changes to be posted on the site . Until Wayne has had time to do his work they will not be viewable on the forum. This being the case we felt it better not to publish them until this has been done as there would be two conflicting sets of rules in the public domain causing confusion and argument. 

There has been five months of negotiation/consultation to get this far ,so surely a few more day's  is hardly a long wait. As I said previously if anyone is desperate to know as membership renewal is coming up ,I'm willing to answer questions privately via the original email address but not in the public domain as yet. One person has already used this facility and I hope received a satisfactory reply.

Brian

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If all it takes is for Wayne to come back from his hols, so be it.     A bit more reassuring than "at a later date", and that you, Brian, are striving to be so helpful.

But worrying that Wayne is so indispensable!   I met him at the CLM before last, and he IS an Admirable Crichton of an organiser!    Surely a criterion for  Forum Team membership should be sufficient skill with Forum to post on it?     Else all they will be is another committee pontificating about what they know not!

The TSSC has a professional agency managing theirs, led by a club member and CoM volunteer who is also a data professional.     And Sideways is also run by a volunteer member, data professional.    Respect, as they say, for Wayne,  much respect, but to have someone on the board who knows bits from bytes is just good sense.

John

PS I took your last post, Brian as a reply to me.  To avoid confusion, perhaps refer to or address me as 'JohnD'?

Edited by JohnD
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Although I'm no longer a member of the Reg, I still represent some that are (for the time being), and a question that often arises is: 

Why did the acting chairman last year, along with the board, direct members at the AGM to adopt these new forum rules, and use his proxy votes to support the adoption? 

Either the board knew that some forum users would not be happy, but thought that they'd eventually get in line, or the board was totally out of touch with forum users. Which was it? I can only imagine it was the first option. I suspect the feeling was a few will moan, but will accept whatever we do. Now, there is a wake up call, that members have other options. 

I applaud anyone with the tenacity to keep banging their head against the wall in hope of meaningful change, but in the end without wholesale change in the management, the mentality will continue. Yes, you can put yourself forward for election (those that are lucky enough to be able to), as I did, but you might just find a few barriers get in the way if the existing board doesn't like you. And if you do get in, prepare to be marginalised if you do not tow the line. 

I really do wish the TRR as a club the best of luck, but I do not believe that the bulk of the current management is giving it the best chance. 

By the way, isn't it rather questionable to let a panel, none of which are on the management , "dictate" club policy. That panel should never have had a remit to decide on what should happen to a local group or any other matter than my situation.      

Edited by TR5tar
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On 4/25/2019 at 5:32 PM, Neil T said:

One point,how can it be healthy for a dealer to be a moderator? still

 

On 4/25/2019 at 6:57 PM, PeterC said:

Hi Neil,  Yes I did wonder if it could be bad for business.  Peter

Who is this 'dealer' that is a moderator??? What does he deal?? :)

 

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12 hours ago, tr4tom said:

 

Who is this 'dealer' that is a moderator??? What does he deal?? :)

 

Tom,

Hey anyone who is willing to step up and help with any forum is a good person in my book. If they are professionally involved in classic cars so much the better knowledge wise. A moderators role can’t be a fun side of a forum. I imagine they can be moaned at via pm over all sorts of posts that are perfectly innocent.

If they are on the other forum its shouldn’t worry anyone on here so sideways can stay “ “A” political “ car / club wise and enjoy the  triumph etc banter.

H

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Aaargh! I'm still a TRR member, but am mourning the wretched institution it has become. What follows is merely my view, though, OK?

The Reg. has a 'Management Team' largely of self-important stuffed shirts who appear to delight in wearing a bow tie (there are a small number of honourable exceptions). Where's Hoges when you need him? Ousted by a MT coup, that's where... but still doing his constructive best...

The Mgt Tm are severely up themselves and l suspect they now believe themselves to be the main raison d'etre for the Register; forget preservation of the marque... They are paranoid about criticism, and so we can forget openly linking the decline of the TRR Forum with the outrageous treatment of Darren, the dingenuousness and misrepresentation  of the IRP and the moral cowardice of the current Chair; it won't be allowed. 

Consequently there's hardly anyone on the Forum but a few hardy perennials, and the posts tend to be dull, politically repetitious; a mere shade of the days when Alec P. (notwithstanding his flaws) leavened the whole thing with his irreverent, intelligent, informative no-bullsh*t, precious little suffering of idiots approach. 

Had Alec been alive, the MT would, l suggest, never have got away with what they have done - selling the spirit of the Register down the river and trying to make it into a pale imitation of the Porsche or Morgan clubs. 

I don't know if l'll bother renewing my membership in December. I feel much of the sentiment expressed above by Rod. 

It's a tragedy, what has happened to the TR Register. All imho, mind... 

Tim. 

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For those of you who need to read before you sign . . . . .

 

TERMS OF USE FOR THE TR REGISTER CAR CLUB FORUMS

By using this Forum, you are agreeing to comply with the following terms and rules for use: 

1.0 Introduction

1.1 This Forum is provided by the TR Register (TR Owners Club Limited) for the enjoyment of Club members and for the sharing of technical knowledge and assistance regarding subjects related to TR sportscars. There are many benefits of membership to the TR Register Car Club beyond the use of the Forum - you're encouraged to make use of them all to enhance your TR ownership in the best way possible.

1.2 Non-members are welcome to enjoy open areas of the Forum, but should appreciate they are guests of the TR Register. Our Forum users come from all walks of life and all ages – please respect each other. To assist in keeping the discussions on this forum courteous, supportive, respectful and lawful, we have the following rules. 

1.3 IMPORTANT: If you don't agree with the rules, please don’t use the Forum!

1.4 Failure to follow these rules may result in permanent moderation of all your posts and removal of your user account. If Club members pursue actions on the Forum which brings the Club or its volunteers into disrepute, they may be held responsible for their actions in relation to the Club’s Code of Conduct. 

1.5 The TR Register have been advised that, if damages were sought in law for injurious posts, not only the original poster but the system provider, Club, Forum Moderators and Admin could be at risk. The Club will not accept such exposure, nor considers it acceptable for the Forum Admin and Moderators to be put at personal risk. As we do not have the resource to establish if potentially libellous posts are true, or otherwise, any post which may be considered injurious will be deleted without warning or explanation.

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2.1 The TR Register Forum is run by unpaid volunteers, in their leisure time. They do not have the free time to enter into lengthy debate over their actions and may not be available for immediate decisions. Please respect their position. 

2.2 The TR Register reserves the right to modify the Forum rules at any time. It is the responsibility of the User to ensure they are conversant with the current rules which are published clearly on the Forum. Users will be notified of any changes. 

3.0 Forum Profiles & User Names

3.1 Club Members should include their Club Membership Number within their profile signature. This allows a route of direct contact for Club Officials in event of query or dispute and allows the club to verify membership to ensure user accounts have the appropriate access levels. Non-members and Club Members, who cannot be contacted directly by the Club, may be removed from the Forum. 

3.2 Proper names and avatars are preferred as, in our opinion, they promote courteous behaviour and aid the moderators in spotting spam accounts. 

3.3 Users who have connection to a TR related business are welcome to identify themselves as trade, but MUST NOT use the forum as a means of advertising and canvassing for business either commercially or on behalf of other clubs.

3.4 User names or signatures deemed by the moderators or club officials as offensive will be requested to be changed. If the request is ignored then the moderators or admin reserve the right to delete the user account. 

3.5 Multiple Forum registrations for one individual are not allowed. 

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4.1 By using any part of this forum you agree to abide by the forum rules. You agree not to:

4.1.1 Post insulting, threatening or defamatory material or material likely to cause undue annoyance, provocation, upset or embarrassment to any reasonable person. 

4.1.2 Post any unfounded or unproven accusations of malpractice, fraud, criminal or civil offences against named companies or individuals 

4.1.3 Use the Forums to harass anyone, including but not limited to, posting personal or private information and images. 

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4.1.7 Post content, links to websites, or adverts for your own commercial gain or otherwise use the TR Register Forums to bring attention to your product or service. Personal for sale postings are acceptable as long as they are an individual member/owner selling his/her personal car or accessories are offering a swap. The TR Register requests you use the classifieds section of the website for the sale of vehicles and high value items (over £250), not the Forum. 

4.1.8 Reproduce private emails or other correspondence. 

4.1.9 Reproduce deleted posts or start threads discussing them. If you think a post or thread should not have been deleted, contact the relevant moderator. 

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4.1.11 Include signatures that promote a product or service (including web sites & clubs), company or of any perceived commercial gain. 

4.1.12 Post material that is critical of or offensive to any INDIVIDUAL member of the club, it’s staff, Management Team, officials suppliers or club partners. Any complaints /critical comment regarding an individual should be addressed directly to the office / Management Team or to the Forum Community Coordinator.

General discussion of club matters should be kept within the members only area.

4.1.13 Regarding insurance matters, The TR Register, its agents or employees are not authorised to give advice. Any view or opinion expressed about insurance matters on this Forum does not constitute advice from The TR Register, its agents or employees and should not be relied upon as such by any user of this Forum.

4.1.14 Post content in relation to AGM’s or EGM’s that falls outside the rules of the club. For example ,AGM manifestos for contested posts, as published in TR Action are permissible as a statement of intent but electioneering debate regarding contested posts is not.

The call for meetings or an EGM may be posted on the forum.

4.1.15 Post complaints or queries that only the office or Directors can answer, please contact the Forum Community Coordinator as this will provide a faster response.

4.1.16 Posts must not promote or assist unlawful or anti-social behaviour or acts.

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In many cases pictures are necessary to identify items referred to in posts and need to be easily viewable. Multiple large and/or lightly-compressed pictures slow the performance of the Forums too much for modem users; please remember that web pictures only need to be 72 dpi 640 x 480 and can be compressed easily. 

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5.10 Do not post new problems on someone else's thread and interrupt a topic of discussion. 

5.11 This Forum is not a soapbox for airing political or religious beliefs, opinions or ideologies. 

5.12 Any member new or existing can post as many times as they wish providing the posts are in accordance with the Forum rules.

5.13 A new member has an entirely equal right to express themselves freely on this Forum as an established member does.

6.0 Reporting Abuse or breaches of the Forum Rules.

6.1 Action when using the ‘Report’ post button: 

6.1.1 Selecting the ‘Report’ button causes the offending post to be flagged, along with your user details and those of the original poster, to the Moderators of the relevant Forum and to the Administrators. In most cases, Moderators will make a simple judgment as to whether the report is valid and will advise the user who reported the ‘abuse’ and the moderator(s) of their decision. The moderator’s decision is final. If this is not considered fair the reporter may contact the Forum Community Coordinator or a Management Team member for a second opinion. The moderators in many instances may feel the need to discuss the action required amongst themselves for a consensus of opinion. 

7.0 DISCLAIMER:

The views and opinions expressed on this forum are those of the individuals concerned and do not in any way reflect the views and opinions of the TR Register, and do not constitute advice being given by either TR Register, it’s staff, partner companies or volunteers. TR Register cannot be held responsible for any action taken by others in response to, or as a result of, the views, advice or opinions expressed by individuals on this forum. Users should check the accuracy and validity of any Technical information with a professional expert or workshop manual. The TR Register cannot be held responsible for any costs, loss, damage, injury or death occurring as a result of advice given via the Forum. 

By using this Forum, you understand that your posts can be traced to your specific user account containing your e-mail address, user name, date and time of sign-up, TR Register membership number and IP address at date and time of posting

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The only vagary is in para 1.1 - where it states that the forum is for sharing technical info.

However Alec's Inn contains at least 50% of non-technical banter. The title for Alec's Inn gives a good description for what it should be used for.

Why not put the exception in the rules.

 

Roger

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5 hours ago, RogerH said:

The only vagary is in para 1.1 - where it states that the forum is for sharing technical info.

However Alec's Inn contains at least 50% of non-technical banter. The title for Alec's Inn gives a good description for what it should be used for.

Why not put the exception in the rules.

 

Roger

Perhaps, Roger.  But I see this: "...for the enjoyment of Club members and for the sharing of technical knowledge and assistance..." (my emphasis) as being inclusive of far more than just technical info etc.

There are now two sections ("Alec's Inn" [TRR members only] and "TRs Out and About" [public]) which are for things broader than technical questions and support and I, for one, am hoping that these see a bunch of diverse topics for like-minded folk.  The sort of stuff which I also like to come here for.

We'll see how it goes, of course, and any Forum is ultimately only as good as its contributors.

Cheers,

Tim

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Hi Roger,  to follow on from Tim " we missed it:ermm:" . As it was part of the original rules and nobody flagged it up at the time I certainly missed it and probably the rest of us too. 

As Alec's Inn had already found its own level with tech and non tech banter it didn't stand out. 

I must eat more carrots or something to sharpen my eyesight:laugh:  

Bri

 

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Yes, that does look better and would be acceptable.     But still 4.1.14 appears to be thoroughly undemocratic.

4.1.14 Post content in relation to AGM’s or EGM’s that falls outside the rules of the club. For example ,AGM manifestos for contested posts, as published in TR Action are permissible as a statement of intent but electioneering debate regarding contested posts is not.

Please explain, John or others with a hotline to TRR MT, how will election debate take place?   I say debate, with all the rules of polite, civilised debate, as summarized in the paragraphs above.      A message board is an ideal medium for such debate, allowing questions to be asked and answered, by candidates in person, promoting clarity of both.   Extra work for moderators, no doubt, if only in inspecting posts, and extra care by those posting, but how else is a club such as the TRR to have a debate when elections loom?

I look forward eagerly to a response, which I hope will show me how  I may return to the TRR site, confident of a better regime.    

John

Edited by JohnD
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