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Sandm Triumph Lincs . TR's Liberated from them !

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Hi Everyone, so this is where you all are  ! Good to see you.

Just to let you all know , so you don't make the same mistakes ...Three TR Members cars we Liberated from Sandm Triumph Restoration Ltd in Horncastle a couple of weeks ago, one had been there for 4.5 years and still far from completed.  Many phone calls were made to the company and ignored as we're texts and Emails. Hence Three Trailers arriving and cars taken away.

Needless to say,  alot of money has been handed over and very little work done. Many sleeples nights , anxiety and stress , when you don't know even the whereabouts of you Pride and Joy. Some cars even have suffered quite serious body damage , which has been poorly covered up..

Please feel free to add your experiences, and if you haven't already done so, don't fall into the trap  !!

All the best,  

Conrad.

 

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Conrad 

Glad to hear the the cars have been recovered, we know from our conversations of the difficulties that have arisen, best foot forward with the resto's from now on.

Regards

Phil

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Just a quick comment on this.  We are not averse to naming and shaming traders who are mistreating their customers but I don't feel this is a place for great detail on their business methods, partly because this is my first encounter with the company in question, but also because the posters are new to this forum.

I think Conrad pitched the opening post about as strong as it needs to be and it certainly carried an eloquent warning. Fellow sufferers can back him up and anyone fortunate enough to have had a good experience can put that side too.  Anyone wanting more detail can always PM the posters.

Cheers

Nick

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Hi Phil, I hope all is good with you,    My car wasn't one of the three that were removed.they had been kept by sandm for 4.5 years, 3.5 years and 2 years respectively,  with little work done, disgusting !

I removed mine nearly a year ago , but it is mothballed , awaiting solicitors decision  !!  Not what I had planned nearly 4 years ago now when I bought it ....hopefully I can start the full dismantling and total ground up rebuild again,  quite soon.

Cheers Conrad. 

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By these accounts, to go to a business that calls itself S&M is an invitation to a good spanking.

Nhoj

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Hi John, we all like a laugh mate,  but surely not in this instance, fellow car owners have been well and truly spanked ! 

But for the grace of God and all that,  this company have systematically ripped car owners off. It's disgusting .

If you want to know more please PM me.

So,  much as i like your humour, maybe not appropriate  !

I have been called a Silverback in my time, so maybe we should get together sometime !!

Have fun, 

Conrad.

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Sorry Conrad, but I have to go with John''s take on life, if you can't find the humour in even the most dire circumstances, even death, life would be very dull.

And whilst I can sympathise with the angst you have undoubtedly endured, and feel it entirely appropriate you warning people to count their fingers  when dealing with a particular company, at the end of the day we are talking about a car, and as horse owners for centuries have known Caveat Emptor. I personally wouldn't leave my car unattended in anyone's care for even an hour as no matter how good, I still wouldn't trust them to even start the engine correctly.

Sorry just realised that all sounds a bit harsh, unwelcoming, not intended!

Look forward to hearing about progress on the car, and perhaps even some of the horrors that are uncovered?

Alan  

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Hi Alan, no worries, ....as I said to John, "as much as i like your humour"...and yes it's only a car and as we say up here,  no one has died  !!

I gave them a chance to build up their business,  as did every one....and got kicked in the proverbial  !

We have already found horrors,  the Assessors report was damning, as I knew it would be. Better not bore all my new friends with the details.

Have a good day, 

Conrad.

 

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Yep there are some right old tools out there in every trade. Lets face it how many times have you gone to do some home DIY , only to look at for instance at the carnage left by a "professional" sparky or plumber. You spend the first 2 hours of a 20 minute job sorting out their bollocks before you can even start. I'm not suggesting your issues are as simple as sorting someone else's crappy plumbing, but people pay "pros" and more often or not in my experience get bodge jobs.

All you can do if you are unfortunate enough to land on one is cut your losses, however bad they may be, take a deep breath and sort it yourself, learning as you go,  or seek a multitude of opinions before chancing your arm again. 

The best thing about this place, is there is always someone, usually more , who can offer ideas , suggestions , tips and knowledge. 

I truly hope you Conran (and others affected) can regroup, and push on, and get to your end goal successfully. I would love to say I could offer advice , but I am here learning most of the time myself. Most frustrating must be that you cant crack on until the legal pony is sorted 

Good luck and please keep us updated. 

I feel invested in it now! 

 

Andy

 

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Hi Andy, 

Thankyou for the uplifting message, very kind of you . We are all positive now, but haven't been for a number of years, there are still cars in there too !!!!

Invested you are , and I am quite happy  to let you know how I progress , and hopefully how the others get on too.

All the best,  

Conrad.

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4 hours ago, Bumblebee said:

Yep there are some right old tools out there in every trade. Lets face it how many times have you gone to do some home DIY , only to look at for instance at the carnage left by a "professional" sparky or plumber. You spend the first 2 hours of a 20 minute job sorting out their bollocks before you can even start. I'm not suggesting your issues are as simple as sorting someone else's crappy plumbing, but people pay "pros" and more often or not in my experience get bodge jobs.

Agreed.  All too often the only difference between pro and amateur is that one expects to get paid.... and is often in a tearing hurry to get to the "paid" part.  Have encountered some plumbing and wiring horrors in our current house, both performed by "pros" and self-certified as "proper job"  under the newish and wonderfully useless building regs legislation.

As for the work performed many years ago on my poor GT6...... :ohmy::mad:.  Not clear whether it was all done at the same time but looks to have been done by the same bodging bastard with a penchant for brazing rust and covering it and huge dents with gobs of lead and filler.  The car doesn't seem to have have done many miles since the work was done (in the late 80s we think), probably because it drove horribly due to bent chassis and suspension parts.  Whether it was done as an insurance job or a recovery and tart-up of a write off I have no idea.

In the case of the original company in question, they have quite a convincing website, though not all would take the name-dropped association with a better-known outfit as a promising sign.  Beware flash websites.....

Nick

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Morning Nick, 

Amazingly the "Convincing" website is down  !  Maybe he doesn't like the recent write ups from disgruntled customers. !

As you say beware of flash websites, to read it you are thinking of the perfect place for your car, .....spotless workshop, up to date spray booth etc ....none of that is true, far from it I can assure you.

There is alot more to this than meets the eye, watch this space .

Conrad.

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The website was up yesterday but down today..... His arsebook page is fairly convincing too. 

Its a pity there are so many charlatans about. 

LOL Nick. I have an old spitfire (1965) which I pulled out a of a hedge in Essex somewhere and gave peanuts on, and the chassis was like a banana when I eventually got the bolts out of the tub. Like three or four inches out. I cut it into bits and weighed it in , it was that bad, and paid Spitfire graveyard 100 quid for a straight one. Mind you 6 years on I still have not finished her, or even got close. A no workshop, no time situation, and the Stag and latterly GT6 have been priorities.

My Stag, which I also gave not a lot on, basically dissolved around me, and when poking around the rear subframe bushes I realised the repair was gaffer tape covered in stonechip. I completely reshelled her in the end, the biggest job I have ever done, and a task I learned a lot on. It is safe to say I know every single bodge on the stag, because I did them! 

Anyhow I am sure you will get there in the end. Its no consolation Conran, but I grew up near Heathrow Engine centre in the 80s.... however bad your car is, it wont get close to the disaster that was them. They still exist I think , 32 name changes and 25 prison sentences later. 

 

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All these tales of woe - suggest that what the classic car community really needs is a "Trip Advisor" style review facility. Centralised reports on the experiences of customers at various establishments.
As some will know I've had my own share of bad experiences. As a small hotel owner I know how review sites work from the receiving end! Sure you will get the odd difficult customer that expects everything for nothing and then will complain long and loudly at being mistreated - but you'll also get the glowing support of loyal customers singing your praises from the tree tops. Savvy would be punters learn to discount the best, ignore the worst and get a feel for the established reputation of the outfit in which they are spending money and ( in the case of our cars) - sometimes investing heavily.

What such review sites have done is focus businesses' on treating customers fairly. Mistakes do occur - that's life - most of us accept that - what is important is how mistakes and mis understandings are resolved. For instance - I had work done by TR Enterprises a couple of years ago which resulted in the trashing of a perfectly good cylinder head. Although I don't know exactly how it happened - it seems that following a recommisioning exercise the valve springs ( which they replaced and charged me for ) became bound and bored themselves into the head ( no valve spring seats fitted ). Despite good communication and friendly service I was left with a ruined head and absolutely no recompense. I've hesitated naming and shaming - particularly as there are relatively few Triumph specialists with such well established reputations - I just cannot get over the feeling that I was let down.

Have the tech savvy IT wallahs here got the nowse to create a review facility?

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Greta,

Just last week,  I was amazed and delighted to have John Sadler come and see me at Mallory Park!    John and his friend Mark Plausin had my SofS in the 90s, when I had my first Old Blue Vitesse, and we raced together in the TSSC Championship.  See pic! 

When I bought SofS from Mark, it had a recently rebuilt engine, but the cam ate the block, due to too stiff valve springs.     John told me that he knew of other engines that had happened to, and surmised that it may have been a batch that were mislabelled.   That would have been about 1998 - was your experience with TRE then?

JOhn

Two Vitesses - Pembrey 1995.jpg

Edited by JohnD

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FYI I've had complaints about this thread from Mr Lambkin-Smith and have removed the post he particularly objected to, though it's fair to say he'd rather the whole thread went.  I've asked if he wishes to let me know his side by PM. 

There has also been other information given by a so-far-anonymous source, which I'm checking up on. 

My final observation (for now) is that anyone with ongoing/unresolved legal disputes with the company would likely be best off keeping it private (except perhaps in very general terms) until proceedings are complete.

Nick

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No John - I collected the car from them in early 2017 and by the time I'd done Ilkley & Leukaemia Rallies she was gnashing like something out of the Beano < 2000 miles and the damage was done. It didn't help that neither TR Enterprises or I spotted woeful crank end float that also trashed the block - on stripping it looked like a thrust washer had dropped not long after the engine had been rebuilt - lying pristine in the sump - one lives and learns. 
TR maintained that the wobbly crank caused the valve spring grinding - but a) they should have spotted the endfloat problem & b) I still don't understand the mechanism by which this may have occured. I'm not even sure why they changed the springs in the first instance - as those in the engine were < 10k old - specced & fitted by Jigsaw.

Hopefully picking up the eponymous "Greta" on Friday and hope to share results of the fresh engines'  Rolling Road readouts next week - will be interesting to compare against Red Roosters post.

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Over-strong springs or springs that are becoming coil-bound seem the most likely reason for the head damage.  Cam and follower damage also likely.  Can see no link whatever with the crank end-float issue other than both are indicative of a sloppy build - very unexpected from that source.  Would have expected a greater desire to "set things right" too.

Re the "trip-advisor" thing - I feel that is a double edged sword.  In very general terms the "facility" if you can call it that, exists via Google reviews though the quality of those is very variable and many are malicious or spurious.  Can of worms.

My advice to anyone considering sending their cars out for work is to do your homework.  Website is only a starting point.  Visit the premises, have a good look at cars done.  Search out people who've used them for personal  review.  Don't necessarily assume that names given by the business owner will be unbiased.  Obviously the higher the stakes (full rebuild of TR5 vs. sill on Spitfire) the more diligence needed.

At this point I'm going to close this thread as it's original purpose is a can of worms and much of the later comment, though interesting in it's own right, is not directly relevant.  A new thread on how to choose your supplier/restorer might be worthwhile though!

Nick

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After some behind the scenes activity I've decided to unlock this thread again.

However,

1. I still don't think this is the place for detailed descriptions of grievances.

2. Please avoid naming others in unrelated anecdotes as this can lead to unjustified "collateral damage".  This did unfortunately happen further up the thread, but I gather is now on the way to a happy ending due to a very positive attitude to customer service from TR Enterprises.

Nick

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Hang on a minute Nick - while it is true TRE have been in touch - I wouldnt go so far as to applaud their customer relationship skills. Our conversation amounted to a mini lecture in which I was instructed as to why it was all the original engine builders fault and not theirs. Why if I'd spent more money the problem wouldn't have  occurred. Had I bereted a guest at my hotel for posting a considered review on Trip Advisor with the same hubris and lack of empathy I would be expecting a visit from the director of our regional tourist board.

Perhaps, unlike the hospitality sector - within the motor trade the customer is never right! If A guest returns a corked bottle of wine - I don't tell them it's my vintners fault -I replace the bottle FOC- try to get to the bottom of what went wrong - take ownership of the problem and endeavour to finish the exchange in a manner that will hopefully leave the guest satisfied that their grievance has been heard and understood & willing to return. 

I do concede that No one wants to be held to ransom -  & acknowledge that misunderstandings and dissatisfactions do often have two sides to them. However, While I do appreciate this forum is primarily for the discussion of engineering issues  - I shared my experiences on a topic board entitled "Rantings" in  good faith.

 If we end up feeling  censured in what we share on sites like this - where can we go?

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi Nick , Thankyou for your understanding  on this thread. I do hope we can continue this thread on the original subject matter as you suggested.

Hi Greta, obviously similar issues will come to light, and in my experience of reading other threads, they often become diluted and even change subject totally.  I have read what you have to say with interest, but would like to keep to the subject matter.

You have told me that by bringing the problems with Sandm Triumph to light , that you have avoided using them and landing in the same boat as multitudes of others., I am pleased to have been of assistance.

Cheers Conrad. 

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