BrianC Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 I think the majority of posts on the TR Forum and on here sum up the current situation and the feelings of many of us. What is emerging and increasingly angering members is the alleged additional misdemeanours that have been raised by the independent review which were never part of the original trial (oops, hearing). Pending a full report explaining the exact nature of Darren's 'crimes' and the source and content of the 'evidence' and 'testimonies' provided to the review panel, we cannot really make a fair judgement. However, having met Darren a few times and engaged in discussions with him on Forum and in emails, I find it extremely difficult to believe that he is likely to have done anything to justify either the way he has been treated or the lifetime ban. Unless a full disclosure reveals unexpected 'crimes' and irrefutable 'evidence', I sincerely hope that the ban is not implemented and that Darren is able to contribute to reviving the TRR with the fresh ideas and energy which I believe he has. Alas, this may all come too late, both for Darren and some long-term members of the 'club' (yes, that is what it is supposed to be). As a Deputy Group Leader with a tendency to say what I believe, I feel rather vulnerable under the current regime and am seriously considering stepping down from the position in the local group of which I was one of the three founding members. There is more to life than this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MennoR Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 I've posted this on the TRR forum earlier this morning. So let me get this straight: Early August, Darren and I had an email conversation about the whole matter and his 3-month expulsion. From his email: I am told that after three months I am eligible to have my membership reinstated, but if I'm harmful to the interests of the club, then the expulsion must be permanent. And if I'm not harmful, then I should not have been expelled. Keeping me out for three months also means that I cannot stand to lead my group or for a position on the TRR’s board, which I have said openly that I will do. The whole matter started to rumble and tumble here on the TRR forum and ST. No new facts were added. The shout for an EGM was started here and things were geared up for an extra meeting. Reason: that punishment was considered far to harsh! A few members here offered their help, trying to avoid an expensive EGM. There was this call for an Independent Panel (IP) in conjunction with the help of the two Ians. The EGM was called off because of the IP. At the same time, there's noise from the BoD that the forum is an epicentre of negative points or view, harmful for the whole world to read; the BoD restricts the freedom of posting (Edit function, later to be re-installed for a small time gape per posting(...) In the meantime, DC gets burned down in TRA. Open for everybody to read. Even to be found on the coffee table of a Dutch tyre-shop... The IP starts its investigations; several witnesses from DC's group aren't heard - despite their first-hand evidence and view on the whole matter. The AGM is about to be held with several proposals to nozzle the forum. Proxy voting is a mess, according to some forumites; no-one is certain that his 'voice' is heard at the AGM. The IP sends out its preliminary findings. All conclusions, no facts are shown that support the findings and conclusions. There are certainly no new facts. But it is preliminary after all. The BoD was wrong that the forum is an epicentre of negativism. No new facts were added DC gets a ban for life. One can say that giving up the EGM was a bad judgement. Without new evidence, DC's 'punishment' has become a lot heavier. Perhaps I missed a few highlights (well, 'lows' is better I think). But DC went from a temp ban to a ban for life without new facts added. What did I overlook? Added to that, I kind of feel sorry for the IP members: their name and fame is now connected to an investigation that's -to say it friendly- questioned by most of those who know and care about this case. My prediction: it's going to be a hot AGM with a lot of walk-outs afterwards. Since the article in TRA set the tone-of-voice towards the general public, I wouldn't be surprised that it is going to be a hot afternoon. Correct me when I'm wrong. Please use facts and proof. Menno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foster461 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 On 11/19/2018 at 6:30 AM, PeterC said: The trick the BoD used was to limit the 3WM to evaluating events since 2017. The origins if the spat lie further back. IF expulsion is to be sued as a tool to prtect the company there shoudl have been two lifetime bans. Peter A common tactic in politics. If you want an independent panel to reach the conclusion that you want you just have to time-limit the investigation, narrow the scope of the investigation and put constraints on who the investigators can interview. Stan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianR Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 There is one big question to ask, would any of this have happened if Darren had not made known his intention to stand for election to the board. To me it seems that as far as certain members are concerned you fall into line with their thinking or by hook or by crook will somehow be silenced. A new era of management will not be allowed, look what happens to Paul Hogan Darren keep your spirits up and enjoy your TR with real friends. The club needs people like you not than you need the club Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TR5tar Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) Thank you for the further messages of support. I've been thinking about the requests to post my "statement" (above) on the Reg forum. I'll leave it up to members if they wish to quote from it, but I'm not sure that posting it in full will make any difference. In some ways I'd rather people sign up to ST to read it here, as I'd like to see more people benefiting from the relaxed environment that this forum offers. I do not hold out much hope for the future of that other forum. Unless there is a complete change in the board, I am resigned to the fact that there is little if anything that can be done now to change things for me. It is clear that some people will go to any lengths to protect their positions. It is obvious, I think, that the BODs have zero regard for me, and quite frankly I now have zero confidence in them (apart from one, perhaps). If my original three month expulsion had not have been rescinded, I would not have come back into the club regardless, and I told the panel that. This is because the expulsion was wrong in my mind, both in terms of the reasons given for it , the misrepresentations, and the way in which it was executed. It seems to me now that it was always going to go one way, because the regime decides on what it wants to present as a misdemeanour. In my case, what that really amounts to is challenging the way the board has behaved (what they have called "divisive and controversial"). Well, if I am not entitled to challenge the regime's behaviour, then I'd rather not be part of anything governed in that way. It has been put to me, both by directors and by the panel, that the directors have been put in place and can run the club as they see fit. My view is that on important matters there should always be consultation with the membership. Yes, they are directors for legal purposes, but this is not like (or at least should not be like) a private company. It is far more like an elected government who are in place to represent and serve the membership. My other major misdemeanour, it seems, is deciding on what I did and didn't want to do in the club, such as not writing for the club magazine. Again, I believe it is my right to decide on my level of involvement, just as it is for every other member. As stated above, this new allegation regarding proxy voting is a mystery to me. I did not hear about it until the panel made its statement. I have asked, via my representatives, for full details. Once I hear back I will let people know. I've experienced nothing but misery over the last few months because of all this and in some ways I'd rather be in the position I am now than be in limbo. It is up to each and every member to decide if they wish to be part of what the Reg has now become. Anyone who is happy to be gagged, rather then speak up when they believe something is wrong, will I'm sure be very welcome there. However, those of you that challenge should be aware that you are at risk of being banned. I'm the warning shot, the example. My choices are pretty straightforward now, I either look at other Triumph clubs to join, or a multi-marque local club, or think about setting up something myself (what irony), or just meet up with TR friends under no banner at all. What I've always said is that I will continue to do whatever I can to help fellow TR and classic owners whenever I can, in whatever way I can, regardless if they are a member of a club or not. I'm interested in preserving TRs and promoting the marque, and that doesn't need to be done under a banner or a bunch of people full of their own self importance. I feel very sorry for all the long standing members who have seen the club they created dragged down like this, and I wanted to fight for their voices to be heard. I'm truly sorry that I could not have done more. I put a 12 page document to the panel, along with 20+ pages of supporting evidence. PM me if you want details. Edited November 20, 2018 by TR5tar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterC Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 Darren, Unless there's a substantial palace revolution at the AGM I shall be looking for a new club, one that my insurers recognise. TG I'm not with TRI ! But I also very much like the idea of a small, informal club, free from posers ! If you go that route count me in, please. The proposal of a permanent expulsion has opened up a hornets nest on MChat, almost as if the Panel sought to inflame the situation. Curious, that....I'm beginning to wonder if they have seen through the BoDs posturings. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MennoR Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 What's MChat? M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janner Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, MennoR said: What's MChat? M +1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidescreen Vicky Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Members' Chat on the TRR forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod1883 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Members Chat on the TRR Forum (I think) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod1883 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Vicky - you beat me to it, just. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MennoR Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Great! I was afraid that MChat is something like Facebook, Instagram etc. Thinking: "Oh wonderful! Another 'platform' I don't know anything about!" Menno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamish Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 10 hours ago, MennoR said: Great! I was afraid that MChat is something like Facebook, Instagram etc. Thinking: "Oh wonderful! Another 'platform' I don't know anything about!" Menno So start it up as a chat platform Menno and buy those watches you always dreamed of h Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB|W Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Could someone please explain to me what the Unique Selling Point of the TR Register is when compared with the many other Triumph, or generic classic car clubs? Not the cynical view born of recent events, nor the utopian vision that will never come to pass, just what is it the TR Register membership can offer? Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iankv Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Hi Darren, I've belatedly managed to recover my password to access the sideways site and catch up on your side of the story. I think that way you have been treated is appalling and beggars belief. However, I suspect we are where we are and short of some sort of miracle on Sunday, the same BoD will be re-elected and will carry on with their inept management and unreasonable decisions. I cancelled my membership in the wake of the decision to close AtB but re-instated it so that I could have a vote at the EGM (which didn't happen) and the AGM. Unfortunately, I won't be able to go the AGM because my wife has only just got out of hospital after cancer surgery but I have given my proxy vote to one of the good guys so maybe it will do some good - I'm not hopeful. If things don't change I will be cancelling it again toot sweet. Rgds Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iankv Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 4 hours ago, AB|W said: Could someone please explain to me what the Unique Selling Point of the TR Register is when compared with the many other Triumph, or generic classic car clubs? Not the cynical view born of recent events, nor the utopian vision that will never come to pass, just what is it the TR Register membership can offer? Alan I'm not sure what added value TR Register membership offers but the forum was invaluable when I was rebuilding my car. The technical help willingly provided by a variety of contributors was brilliant. Stuart Edwards is a particular star. Rgds Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB|W Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Ian, You are absolutely right, but that invaluable information is provided by the membership FOC not by TR Register. Online forums do not seem to be the flavour of the day with the TRR board. Without the forums what else remains that makes membership of the TRR a necessity? Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterC Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 16 minutes ago, AB|W said: Ian, You are absolutely right, but that invaluable information is provided by the membership FOC not by TR Register. Online forums do not seem to be the flavour of the day with the TRR board. Without the forums what else remains that makes membership of the TRR a necessity? Alan I think TRR would say the Local Groups are an atteraction. And they'd push TR Insurance but that's much of a muchness. The International Weeknd is slowly shrinking while cost are risng. The BoD places great store on its Corporate Image eg winning prize for show stands and the magazine. All that might well pull in what I call "chequebook enthusiasts" who display TRAction on the coffee table. But for TRers with oily fingernails the tech forum is the only really useful provision. But Members Chat is far from a happy place and unless most of the Board are dumped this Sunday I predict it will empty. So thankyou ST for providng refuge from the storm ! Peter Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MennoR Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 ... I've been kicked off the TRR forum's Members Chat as a result of not renewing my membership (for obvious reasons) and the fact that I don't want to pay more and get less, being a foreign member. To be honest, it's a long-standing rule, so no complaint about that. It was going to happen at some point in time. Can't help thinking that my opinion about the ongoing BoD charade (...) has speeded-up the closing of my account. I do have access to the non-membership parts of the forum. As a matter of fact, I am pretty sure about that, because I noticed that at least two Directors got interested in me and have 'paid me a visit' looking at my profile page. At least I seem to have hit on something. Sadly I was just about to embark on a rant about Mike Forey's 'I do this and I do that for international members...'- signature under his postings. Three sentences, all beginning with 'I'... Oh well. Menno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulAA Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Iankv said: I'm not sure what added value TR Register membership offers but the forum was invaluable when I was rebuilding my car. The technical help willingly provided by a variety of contributors was brilliant. Stuart Edwards is a particular star. Rgds Ian Ian Exactly, but not only. There is some remarkable generosity of time and knowledge on the TRR forum, Stuart being foremost, but the help, encouragement and patient explanation I also received from people like Peter Cobbold, Alec Pringle and others has been fantastic. I could not have managed the many challenges my '6 has thrown up without them. As to the value of membership of the TRR, I can only comment that, as an overseas member, it was not money well spent, so I stopped spending it. I was never aware of the 'Overseas Director' doing anything for individual non-UK members - it seemed that the role was more about glad-handing TR clubs in other countries. Perhaps also worth noting that the closure of At The Bar denied access to the many non-members who had selflessly contributed to a wide variety of motoring and non-motoring threads there. And the gentle and sensible moderation under Roger Hogarth and others was swapped to a wholly more partisan process of lopping threads not welcomed by the anonymous grey mass of Register Authority. Just my opinion, of course. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterC Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 34 minutes ago, MennoR said: ... I've been kicked off the TRR forum's Members Chat as a result of not renewing my membership (for obvious reasons) and the fact that I don't want to pay more and get less, being a foreign member. To be honest, it's a long-standing rule, so no complaint about that. It was going to happen at some point in time. Can't help thinking that my opinion about the ongoing BoD charade (...) has speeded-up the closing of my account. I do have access to the non-membership parts of the forum. As a matter of fact, I am pretty sure about that, because I noticed that at least two Directors got interested in me and have 'paid me a visit' looking at my profile page. At least I seem to have hit on something. Sadly I was just about to embark on a rant about Mike Forey's 'I do this and I do that for international members...'- signature under his postings. Three sentences, all beginning with 'I'... Oh well. Menno Menno, If I can post anything on MChat for you, let me know here. A critique of MF signature for instance, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tr4tom Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 4 hours ago, MennoR said: ... I've been kicked off the TRR forum's Members Chat as a result of not renewing my membership (for obvious reasons) and the fact that I don't want to pay more and get less, being a foreign member. To be honest, it's a long-standing rule, so no complaint about that. It was going to happen at some point in time. Menno No, you haven't been 'kicked off' the members chat area. You are no longer a member of the club and the requirement to view/comment in members chat is membership... If you decided you didn't want to carry on your AA/RAC membership, would you expect them to still come out if your car breaks down? Sorry but incorrect wording is bloody annoying!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MennoR Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Quote To be honest, it's a long-standing rule, so no complaint about that. It was going to happen at some point in time. ^^^ this ^^^ I already mentioned it. But I think that my limited knowledge of the English language causes some diffusion here. Menno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MennoR Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 ... I now realise that you're the same guy from TR Forum: Tom Boyd, moderator! Is this simply commenting on my writing or is it a habit being a moderator? Apart from that, how on earth do you find the time moderate the TR forum ánd comment on my writing here!? Rest assured, you don't have to moderate me here. Your name is not on the S-T's staff list. Everybody with enough sense knows why I've used the words 'kicked out'. If not? Well, like the best soccer player of all time, Johan Cruyff once said: "If I wanted you to understand it, I would have explained it better!" Menno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rog1 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 36 minutes ago, tr4tom said: No, you haven't been 'kicked off' the members chat area. You are no longer a member of the club and the requirement to view/comment in members chat is membership... If you decided you didn't want to carry on your AA/RAC membership, would you expect them to still come out if your car breaks down? Sorry but incorrect wording is bloody annoying!!! Hello again Tom, I see you're doing your best to promote yourself again? It wasn't too long ago that I also seemed to lose posting ability, as Menno has, just after posting about not renewing my TRR membership! Bog off! You don't have a job or free advertising here! Ah, well done Menno, I'm just too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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