Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
JohnD

Survey on crank damper pullies

Recommended Posts

Do we need a new forum?    After Alan's research on rocker ratios, I can offer mine on crank dampers.

This project brought together my own interest and my need for one as a subject for the main assignment of second year at Uni.    That paper is now complete, but I'll be grateful for the opinions of the Common Room of the Faculty of Sideways, that would let me polish it before submission next week.  I've stripped out a lot of extra verbiage, references etc. to leave an explanation of the need for a crank damper, as I fear this isn't common knowledge even among experienced Triumpheros, plus the survey results and my conclusions.   I've uploaded it as a Word document, as it's easier to keep the charts in place.  Just click on the link and it should download to your PC.

So, criticise away, please!

John

Survey of crank damper pullies - MsB version.docx

Edited by JohnD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm told that despite that link seeming to work fine for me, it is a delusion and it just opens the file from my own PC, and is unreadable by others.

So here goes for it as a post.    As I feared, it suffers in terms of layout and format, sections in bold or underline that I can't correct, but I think it's readable

Please go to 

 to comment. as there are some restrictions here in this special forum - of whihc I was unaware!

JOhn

Introduction

A reciprocating engine is subject to different types of vibration.    The crankpin is inherently unbalanced, so web extensions in the opposite direction to the journal can achieve static but not dynamic balance, as the shaft spins and journals in different planes cause a twisting moment about the shaft.

The crank will also be subject to primary and secondary vibration due to piston movement.    The piston accelerates at each end of its stroke, reacting against the crank, and that motion is faster at the top than at the bottom of the stroke, so that secondary vibration occurs twice as fast as primary.   

The straight-six engine is the equivalent of two three-cylinder engines with all those forces opposing each other, so that it is uniquely smooth running, but the longer crankshaft allows torsional vibration to become important.     As each piston descends in the power stroke, against the load or just the inertia of the rest of the drivetrain, it bends the journal on the main bearings of the crankshaft, which rebound and oscillate in the same way as a struck tuning fork, at the ‘natural’ frequency of the part.

A vibrating tuning fork will cause another of the same size to resonate, at the same frequency as the first.    If the input frequency into the journal is the same as its natural frequency, then it will resonate, amplifying the vibration.  Resonance can shatter a wine glass at its resonant frequency, and there may be several “critical speeds” at which a crankshaft will resonate with the frequency of firing strokes.

 Torsional vibration dampers absorb the energy of vibration and dissipate it as heat.  There are many different designs, which depend on:

Viscous friction

Solid Friction

Fluid viscosity

Tuned elastomer mass dampers

The last is most commonly used for production car engines, as it can be made cheaply, is relatively light in weight and requires no maintenance.

Survey of crank damper pullies

A survey was devised and placed on the website Survey Monkey.    It was publicised via websites and message boards in the UK and America, and on Facebook pages, all devoted to the Triumph marque.    Users were invited to visit the survey and complete it.

The purpose of the survey was to find a denominator for the incidence of failed crank damper pulleys in Triumph engines.     To promote compliance, it only contained five questions, four factual and a last question on their opinion if the broken crankshaft was due to the faulty damper.

 

The Survey ran from the beginning of January to the end of February 2018.   A total of 207 owners responded to the survey.

 

Results

 

Q1. Duration of ownership

image.png.0c3cf1d3240c235f9776d4212674144e.png

 

 

Q.2. Models owned

image.png.a6df27c180a43281b11a239bfa8e488f.png

Q.3.Faulty crank dampers seen

image.png.bf0da6ae6c73f3b5971454e2502d244e.png

 

 

Q.4. Known fractured crankshafts

image.png.725190f0a0093db142570fe32c5f803b.png

Q.5 Opinions on cause of crank failure

image.png.bc4524a43586be1772863fd82d258e81.png

 

 

Q.6. Free Text

This unstructured text box allowed responders to write what they liked.   109 responders offered opinions, difficult to categorise, but showing several had owned more than one Triumph for many years, rebuilding up to seven engines, all without any sign that the dampers were faulty.     A rebuild involves finding TDC, to time the camshaft and ignition, so a faulty damper would be found if the builder compared that with actual piston position.

Several commented that the outer edge of the rubber in the damper showed signs of deterioration, being swollen and cracked (see title page).    Some had replaced the damper, either by having it rebuilt, with another, better looking damper or with a non-Triumph damper pulley.    One had shaved off the swollen cracked edge, found the rubber beneath in good condition and used it again, with no apparent ill effect.

Three commented that they had seen broken crankshafts, one twice, but they were in racing Triumphs.     Another had seen one while the car was still under the manufacturer’s warranty.     The last had seen one in an earlier Triumph, a TR3A, but that was an earlier, four-cylinder engine with no damper.

Others commented on seeing faulty dampers on other cars, including the Volvo B21 red-block engines, Ford F150 V8 and Triumph Stag.    

 

Conclusion

The owner who had seen a crank broken under guarantee thought that this might have been due to a faulty damper, but this seems unlikely so early in the car’s life.  It is more likely to have been faulty manufacture of the crank, not deterioration through age.

The survey showed that nearly two thirds of responders had owned one for more than twenty years, so their experience may be expected to be typical.   However, they owned a range of those vehicles that is not in line with the known production figures:

Model

% Produced of Total

% Owned in last 20 years

Saloon 2L/2.5

66

14

TR5/6

19

51

GT6/Vitesse

15

35

 

The attraction of a “British sports car” as a preservation project in the TRs and less so in the GT6 and Vitesse models contrasts with how few of the saloons have survived.      This, however is not relevant, as all these cars had very similar viscous rubber mass dampers, only varying slightly as the 2.5liter engines had wider pulleys

Of those who responded, there were 41 (20%), known crank damper failures, and 32 known crank failures (16%), but only 12% of responders considered the damper failure as the cause of the crank fracture.     They were not asked to amplify what other cause might have led to such a major malfunction, but despite the obvious association there are many other potential causes, and a list would have been only confusing.

The opinion of experts, while not contradicting the experience of owners, contradicts each other and is not helpful in this matter.  The statistics must decide, and that a fifth of the owners of surviving cars had known of a failed damper is a large proportion.   The concern of owners on this problem is justified.

However, the worried owner has no method of resolving his concern.    Inspection of almost any used Triumph damper will show apparent deterioration of the rubber, but four out of five will still function adequately.     A method of testing dampers is needed, to reassure owners, or to demonstrate that the expense of a new damper is essential.   

 

This project justifies further research to discover such a method.

 

Edited by JohnD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×