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Trigger Wheel Mounting Vitesse

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In a "normal" ignition coil, one end of the secondary (HT) winding is connected internally to the earth side of the primary (LT) winding.  This completes the current path.

circ_ic.gif

 

A wasted-spark coil has no internal connection.  Both ends of the primary winding exit the casing and need to be connected to something to complete the circuit.  In this case spark plugs.  The current has to jump two plug gaps simultaneously and the spark will jump in different directions at each plug.  You can see the evidence for this if you examine a pair of well used plugs as the electrodes wear in different ways.

WastedSparkCoilSecondary_zps8b0a2a97 (1).jpg

Nick

 

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EDIS can fail (obviously) but it's really quite rare.  Very robust things.  Not great news as the EDIS-6 is really quite hard to find in UK now.

Nick

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1 hour ago, Nick Jones said:

EDIS can fail (obviously) but it's really quite rare.  Very robust things.  Not great news as the EDIS-6 is really quite hard to find in UK now.

Nick

Hello All

             Several on fleabay £30 to £55

I would go with the £55 as they have 10+ and deal in them and comes with plug

Just put in edis6

Roger

 

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Thanks, I'll try to check as far as I can before giving up and buying a new one.   As Nick says, they have a good reputation for indestructibility.

John

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19 hours ago, JohnD said:

Thanks, I'll try to check as far as I can before giving up and buying a new one.   As Nick says, they have a good reputation for indestructibility.

John

Hello  John

                    If not done already I would pull edis plug and coil pack plug

Then test 5&6 (vr) for coil resistance 

Then do a continuity check on 10,11&12 (coil firing)

Then turn on ignition and check for 12volt at coil and edis using edis earth

If all ok duff edis?

Roger

Ps waggle all wires as testing and check for backed out pins

Edited by rogerguzzi

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Thanks, Roger, you have given structure to my otherwise nebulous, stick-a-meter-probe-in-and-see plans!

John

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1 hour ago, JohnD said:

Thanks, Roger, you have given structure to my otherwise nebulous, stick-a-meter-probe-in-and-see plans!

John

Hello  John

                    We all try the easy way and get lost and miss the obvilots! It's bit like checking all the plugs and points then find you are out of petrol

Roger

Ps good luck but it's not rocket science on the outside of edis  

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John

Don't overlook that your trigger wheel design may not be acceptable to the sensor and may require some testing to rule it out as not causing your problems!

I had much better luck the first time I tried testing my EDIS setup in stand alone limp mode.  One of my design theories was to use all matching Ford parts including the trigger wheel. That way I was guaranteed (in theory) it should work.

I also bought a spare trigger wheel still on balancer that I could use for testing outside the vehicle. Couple of YouTube videos out there showing stock trigger wheel rigged up to spin in a drill press so you can test edis module on the bench.

Escort Tracer Crank Pulley Harmonic Balancer.jpg

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That is , more or less, how I tested my sensor, Aoie.

I have a spare trigger wheel, mounted on another pulley, and span that in my lathe (see above)    I misintepreted the result, because (Doh!) I set my Mmeter to DC!   On AC I got some volts, consistently, which probbaly represented much higher peaks.

While following Roger's advice, I also intend to check that there is a similar response at the EDIS end of the cable, when I spin the engine.     Bit too busy right now to do it, though.

Thanks tio you, and everyone who is being so helpful!

JOhn

Edited by JohnD

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On 27/02/2018 at 7:46 PM, rogerguzzi said:

Hello  John

                    We all try the easy way and get lost and miss the obvilots! It's bit like checking all the plugs and points then find you are out of petrol

Roger

Ps good luck but it's not rocket science on the outside of edis  

Hello  All 

                B****y predictive test or what ever it is?

Roger

 Ps It's getting worse!!!!!!!

Edited by rogerguzzi

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On 2/18/2018 at 2:37 PM, JohnD said:

Thanks, Roger, will fit that switch .

The installation guide insists that the switch must go one way to earth (ground) and the other to 12V+ via  a 1K Ohm resistor.   They are very insistent on that!  "Critical" is the word!

I've looked up "1K Ohm resistors" and they are very cheap, but I have to buy 500 of the little b*gg*rs!

I have some "ceramic wirewound resistors"  that I was instructed to fit to the FIA cut-out switch when I converted to an alternator.  I believe they take the residual output of the alt if you use the cut-out, but Ialso used one to adapt an old water temp guage to a dipstick oil sensor as it clear had a different range to the original one the guage was designed for.     One is  rated "3.3ΩK", but on my Multimeter (set to 200 Ohm  range) measures as 4.3 Ohms, others with "1 OHM" written on them measure as 1.2 Ohms, on the same scale, which seems nonsensical.   The first shouldn't be measureable on that setting, surely?

I presume these won't do!  But would this type be suitable?   I can see 1k Ohm ceramic wirewounds on sale - should i get one of those?

ohn

Hello John

                   Do you still want 1000 ohm resistor? I have found some in my stock(That sounds good! a big tin all mixed up)

Roger

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Thank you Roger!   Another kind friend donated some, and this pm I made up a subloom for the switch.  Bit premature. All my checks found no fault as yet, and still no spark..   But been busy with family visit, need to ndo !ote checks.

John

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Well was pleased with getting the trigger wheel mounted and finding the only position  that the sensor would fit, dropped the Radiator back in last night, and phew was it close, I have slightly more gap between sensor bracket and fan than sensor and trigger wheel, but not much!

Alan

5aa197a78f6ba_AcusumpTriggerWheel005(Large).thumb.jpg.567b74b3d9520cd7a02576825f1a92cb.jpg5aa197a90c331_AcusumpTriggerWheel006(Large).thumb.jpg.01ce27070b237397e5077c3ecf718471.jpg

 

Acusump&TriggerWheel 001 (Large).jpg

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1 hour ago, Nick Jones said:

Damn...... and I thought mine was close!

Nick

Hello All

               Fag paper engineering?

What happens when the rad expands with heat? 1/2 a fag paper?

Roger

ps we will not think of chassis or body shake/twist!!!!! It will be fine?

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Back of fag packet engineering to fag paper tolerances....... impressive :biggrin:  The thumb is my preferred measure of tolerance!

Nick

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33 minutes ago, Nick Jones said:

Back of fag packet engineering to fag paper tolerances....... impressive :biggrin:  The thumb is my preferred measure of tolerance!

Nick

Hello All

              I used to do it by eye and feel but now I do it acuratly i.e. 1/4" plus a bit and a couple of thou or sometimes metric i.e. 1/4" plus a mill and a thou.

And working out on scraps of paper that later I do not understand!

Still to late to change now!

This will make you laugh I fitted a digital read out to my small milling machine so I can make accurate scrap! Still it looks good to visitors and they think I know what I am doing!

Roger

Now were did I put that measuring stick ?

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Well it seems only to delay when I actually start the engine again :confused: I decided that it was all a bit close, and as I couldn't move the sensor bracket, I decided to move the fan, well then of course then fan fouled the water pump pulley!  eventually found a position for the fan, and with the slight touch of a dremel on a rad bracket, and a mild bit of lump hammer engineering on the chassis mounting bracket I now have a fan with about two cigarette card thickness gap between fan and sensor bracket and water pump pulley, think that's it, run of cigarette related euphemisms so job done!

Alan 

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Right!    I have borrowed a Picoscope!

And here's the results.   First, testing the sensor.     Trigger wheel on lathe, sensor in tool hiolder, thus:

IMG_20180311_124517_hdr.thumb.jpg.f35269a3bfcb6abc2dedb708006d809c.jpg

And we see the proper signal on the screen, a wave with the missing tooth very obvious.   Amplitude is about 300mV, but I have a 1:20 attentuator in place, so the actual signal is about 5V.

Here's a little video of the wave form.  The varying apmplitude is probably due to a slight eccentricity of the trigger wheel

Sensor on lathe mounted trigger wheel.mp4

Then, I put the sensor back on the car.  First I checked for continuity in the leads from sensor to EDIS - both good.    And with the Picoscope plugged into the signal lead, on the plug that goes into the EDIS, this is what I saw when cranking the engine.

5aa5504ee6198_Sensorsignalfromcaroncranking.thumb.jpg.c429fc7c49cb27252a35f862b57749e4.jpg

So the sensor is sending a signal to the EDIS.     That should convert that analogue wavform into a digital signal, the PIP or "Profile Ignition Pickup" signal and send it toward the ECU, or in this case, the Megajolt unit. It should look like this:

5aa5511b0f12a_pipandsawcorrecttraces.png.161288fa1d3997d773e41234d0d40aa5.png

The blue trace is the PIP, the red is the SAW, the Spark Advance Word that the ECU/Megajolt ubit sends back to inform the EDIS of how much advance to use.

What do I get?  This:

5aa551dc012be_PIPwiresignaloncranking3atMJLJend.thumb.jpg.221d181e7904033ce89c62b9946ba12a.jpg

The 'scope triggers in the middle of the screen, as cranking starts.    To the left is a flat trace, to the right, during cranking just noise.     It's not the EDIS waiting to capture the missing tooth, as that random noise trace continues.   The EDIS is not sending a PIP signal.  

 

So what do I have?   Earlier, I condemned the sensor, because I was stupid and was using a multimeter in DC mode, so I'm reluctant to say what seems obvious.  The sensor is working, and sends a signal to the EDIS.    I've checked that there is power to the EDIS, 12V on pin 8, and that it is well earthed.   In the absence of an ECU or Megajolt unit to send back the SAW, the EDIS goes into Limited Operation System mode, limp home, and uses a constant 10 degree advance.   If there is no PIP and no LOS, then it looks like a faulty EDIS, but they are very robust.

 

What do my colleagues in  Sideways U., Faculty of Electronics think?  Do I have a faulty EDIS?

John

 

Edited by JohnD

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The sensor waveforms look believable John but the video of the sensor output shows occasional tall spikes which look random and are difficult to explain - was the sensor brushing the wheel sometimes or perhaps it's electrical pick-up from somewhere? Could be computer-generated noise I suppose. Either way they aren't on the cranking waveform so it shouldn't stop the unit working.
The random output is very strange. If the EDIS just wasn't able to trigger on the sensor waveform you would expect a flat line.

Rob

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