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Trigger Wheel Mounting Vitesse

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OoooooooooKay. 

Now trying to wire the thing in.   The Autosport Labs website  https://www.autosportlabs.com/ is curiously difficult to find a way around - Google is a better guide to many pages as it lacks any index.   I've found the MJLJ V3 Installation guide, https://wiki.autosportlabs.com/MJLJ_V3_vehicle_installation_guide but am still puzzled.  Any guiding gurus around?

My coil pack and EDIS are in the engine compartment, the MJLJ on the dash as recommended.     Mine came with a prebuilt loom, that includes  a shielded lead to the trigger wheel sensor.    Out of the EDIS connector comes five separate leads labelled   SAW, PIP, 12V+, Ground and "Shield".    I've shielded the SAW and PIP leads, with self-adhesive copper tape and connected that to ground, they go to the MJLJ.          12V+ and Ground are obvious.

But what about the one labelled "Shield"?    It doesn't appear on any of the diagrams at Autosport.    Where does it go?    Just earth it?

 

Then, my kit came with a number of coils of wire, variously coloured.    I presume these are for the Rev Counter and "User Options"?  Anyone implemented the Shift Light?   The blurb says that the "ford EDIS system offers no direct ability to disable the ignition coils in an over-rev condition" and burbles about developing an extra board.  Anyone done this?

 

Thanks for any advice!

John

 

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Yep. Pin 7.  The PIP and SAW signals are not as fussy as the sensor wiring though and simple twisted pairs are usually enough unless you thread them through the HT leads with a turn around the alternator for good measure

Note that there is no rev limiter possible within the MJ/MS EDIS system as the ECU has no control over whether it sparks, just when it sparks.  Best you can get is revert to limp home (10º BTDC timing).

Shift light is probably useful.....  I suppose you could use this feature to trigger a relay to cut the power to the coil or something - but it would give a pretty abrupt action!

Nick

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Thank you!

But am I any the wiser?     The wire labelled "Shield" comes, sure enough, from Pin 7.

When I shielded the PIP and SAW wires to the MJLJ, I earthed that together with the shield to the sensor, which came provided with a female spade connector and the "Ground" wire from Pin 9.   

All five wires, PIP, SAW, Shield, Ground and 12V+ were the same length, about five feet long.    The EDIS and MJLJ appear to need 12v+ supply, so I've cut that long lead short, used one cut end to connect the EDIS to a switched 12V supply (that originally went to the Coil) and the other cut end to connect to the same supply, to take it to the MJLJ.     Did the same with the Ground wire, to earth the EDIS and MJLJ togther, as above.      That leaves PIP and SAW which go to the MJLJ,  no probs, and Shield, the orphan.

If "Shield" were 'just' an earth, why doesn't it say so?

JOhn

PS, thanks, also, GT6Mk3!      I bought the MJLJ as a made-up set, as I'm not convinced that I am the gods' gift to humanity when soldering is required, so a DiY kit makes my fingers shake.  But I was amazed that I could solder a spade connector to that adhesive copper tape!  Maybe I should give the rev-limiter kit a try.

PPS this is a problem with the Autosport website - it has no index, that might list pages such as the one you linked to!  J.

 

 

 

 

Edited by JohnD

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To supplement, this is how I've wired it.  As shown, "Shield" has nowhere to go, unless it's Earth.

I have tried to post on the Autosport MJLJ forum, but it tells me that my email is alreday registered , but doesn't respond to my requiest for a new password!

 

BUT, I have found a wiring diagram from a Mini site that shows the wire from wire 7, "Shield", connected to the shielding around the PIP and SAW wires - which I have already earthed, with the sensor shielding and the other earths/grounds.   So can I just earth that?  the wire from 8 is alreday an earth?   This is the trouble with 'black boxes' - no idea what goes on inside!

John

 

 

How I've wired the MJLJ.jpg

Mini Megajolt wiring.jpg

Edited by JohnD

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Hi John,

I do remember attaching the VR sensor shield to Pin 7. I "THINK" I also connected the shields for Pins 1,2 & 3,despite the diagram saying "Ground".

Pardon me for asking but are you using a single grounding point other than the negative battery terminal? Correct grounding (rather than typical "earthing") is paramount with this mystical ECU business.

 

Cheers,
Doug

IMG_0545.JPG

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Good Question, Doug, and what I've done is put a bolt in the bulkhead, adjacent to where I mounted the EDIS and Coil pack.    I scraped back to bright metal, put a lock washer (the spiky kind) between the nut and the metal, and then spiky washers between that and the terminal rings.   Hope that's sufficient.

Your diagram is a bit different from others.  A Diode in the earth line from 9, and the 12V+ supply to the Coil pack is Earthed!   Through a capacitor, but I've no idea why.  Do you?

 

Other sites, that document fitting Megajolt seem to show the same.

Looks like that Shield line should go to Earth.   Fingers crossed then!

JOhn

Edited by JohnD

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Shield is just an earth, but when earthing low level signals it's a good idea to connect as physically close as possible to the rest of circuit to minimise any earth offsets (small difference in voltage caused by the small variations in resistance of the various paths to earth).  Also, with shielding specifically you want the shield/earth to take the same route as the wires being shielded.

Probably would make little odds in this case but I know that with MS in general sloppy earthing of sensors etc can cause all kinds of randomness.

Nick

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Well they're all to the same point now!    

Got to stop in the garage for now - can't feel fingers after half and hour.   And I need to go and work in the Library.

Thanks to all, collegiate discussion is a most powerful tool!

John

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Hello All

                You can have a soft rev limiter which retards the ignition.

Soft Rev Limit

At 100 RPMs before the configured Rev Limit the soft rev limiter is engaged, which significantly reduces engine power by retarding ignition advance to zero. This is confirmed in the Configuration Software where the displayed Ignition Advance goes to zero upon approaching the configured rev limit.

The capacitor shown on the coil can be left off 

EDIS Wiring notes and guidelines

  • Use shielded cable for the VR Sensor. Be sure to ground the shield as well. A 22-24 gauge, 2 conductor cable with a foil shield works well.
  • Use 12-14 gauge wire for EDIS ground, power and coil pack connections.
  • Note the VR sensor is polarized- you will not get spark from the EDIS module if it is wired backwards. If you don't see spark, try reversing the connection on the VR sensor.
  • Minimize supply voltage variances and especially ground loop problems:
    • It's strongly recommended you power the EDIS module and MJLJ from the same electrical circuit. Typically this will be +12V switched (Key to "on" position)
    • Important! - Ground both the EDIS and MJLJ at the same point on the chassis.
  • Capacitor attached to coil: The capacitor sometimes found attached to OEM coil packs can be safely omitted.

Are you fitting a temperature sensor?

I did and then you can add a few degs for cold starting and retard a few for hot running it is what all the information I read recommended and it seemed to work ok

Plus you can have 2 ignition maps so you can have one that works well enough and one you can try settings with including temperature correction(ie find out were it pinks etc)

Roger

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Grounding and shielding of circuits can seem more of a black are than a science. What it is trying to achieve is to prevent pickup on the protected (shielded) wires from external sources of electrostatic noise. A continuous wrap like copper foil does this better than braided cable, and forms a partial Faraday screen (partial because of course you cannot close the ends ).

For this to work properly it is important to prevent noise currents circulating in the shield itself since these can couple noise magnetically into the wires, so the shield should be connected to earth only at one point. More than one ground will result in a ground loop a.k.a. earth loop. That is also the reason for the note about grounding everything at the same point, since in radio-frequency terms different points on the bodywork will be at different potentials.

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Thanks, Roger!

How would you interface (!) a temp sensor with the MJLJ?  I don't see any input options other that those mentioned before, with MAP, as I'm using and TPS, whch I'm not.

Two ignition maps!   That might be a tad ambitious.

 

And thanks, DeTRacted, (forget your real name!)

AS that is what I've  done, all unknowingly.

John

Edited by JohnD

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Ah!   That's V4.      I have a V3 - I bought it ages ago, and only just got round to fitting it - whose only inputs, apart from SAW & PIP are MAP and TPS.      So temp cocntrol goes back-shelved. (Phew, this is stressful enough!)

But that diagram raises another worry in my mind.    Wiring the plug into the MJLJ.   The diagram above is clearly as you look down on the MJLJ socket on the casing - it shows the screws securing the panel.   But the diagram in the V3 instructions isn't as clear, see below.  I had interpreted it as looking at the plug from the MJLJ side, the other way around.

Examining the plug in a good light and with a magnifying glass, each hole is numbered, 1-7 down one side and 8-14 the other.  Why the &(%^ can't they use those and remove all doubt? 

JOhn

MJLJ_V3_Wiring_Harness.png

Edited by JohnD

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Hello John

                   I would advise you to fit a switch so you can use 2 ignition maps.(nick will give you a map that should be close to start)and you can play with second one!

It is only a simple switch which grounds the option SW.

When in use I would use the NON grounded position map as the main map and grounded as Playing map then if the switch or wire fails all is ok

Its a pity you do not have temperature input it made a difference to Spitty when she got hot and bothered in Spain (30+degs) still you go sprinting so probably not so essential?

Your parts have been posted today we did not go out yesterday!(sorry)

Roger

ps guess who bought a rocker shaft for Spitty only to find it is about 1/2" short(Herald?) could have been worse the chap had 6 or 8 thought about buying them all as they were cheap and Triumph!

Edited by rogerguzzi

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Thanks, Roger, will fit that switch .

The installation guide insists that the switch must go one way to earth (ground) and the other to 12V+ via  a 1K Ohm resistor.   They are very insistent on that!  "Critical" is the word!

I've looked up "1K Ohm resistors" and they are very cheap, but I have to buy 500 of the little b*gg*rs!

I have some "ceramic wirewound resistors"  that I was instructed to fit to the FIA cut-out switch when I converted to an alternator.  I believe they take the residual output of the alt if you use the cut-out, but Ialso used one to adapt an old water temp guage to a dipstick oil sensor as it clear had a different range to the original one the guage was designed for.     One is  rated "3.3ΩK", but on my Multimeter (set to 200 Ohm  range) measures as 4.3 Ohms, others with "1 OHM" written on them measure as 1.2 Ohms, on the same scale, which seems nonsensical.   The first shouldn't be measureable on that setting, surely?

I presume these won't do!  But would this type be suitable?   I can see 1k Ohm ceramic wirewounds on sale - should i get one of those?

ohn

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Meanwhile....

I didn't take the coil out very carefully, so I've spent a long time on the bulkhead and lying under the dashboard, to work out how and where I should supply and earth the MJLJ.

Got it sorted this pm.   Fitting instructions say that EDIS by itself shoud be able to run the engine, with a fixed 10 degree advance.     So fire it up,  Nothing.

Get out my plug tester, an old plug with an earthing crocodile clip soldered to it.  Connect that to No.1.  No sparks.

Get out my neon plug testers, one on each plug lead.  Nothing, no flashes.

So, it's not firing, and forgive me if I write my thinking, in the hope that it will help me work out what is wriong, and may be you can help.

What can be wrong?   The only connections to the car and loom are; 12V + (tick, to EDIS, Coil and MJLJ),  Earth (tick, for EDIS, MJLJ shielding to sensor and MJLJ), and via the sensor to the crank.  The MJLJ unit isn't connected, so it can't be "shorting it out" or doing anyting.   As I've said before, the sensor may not be as accurately position on the crank as AccuSport might like, it may be at 9.5 degrees before TDC, not ten, but it should make the EDIS fire, even if its wildly untimed, shouldn't it?

Can I test the Sensor, see if it's sending a signal?   I'd need a Picoscope or similar for that; I don't think even a digital multimeter could show the fluctuation, could it?

Can I test the Coil Pack in some way?    Like making and breaking the original coil's supply, which could show a spark and demostrate the coil functions?

Testing the EDIS??   I doubt it, unless someone knows!

John

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Hello  John

                    Is the 've sensor connected correctly + - ? And close enough ? I think I tested mine in the lathe and mini tester to see pulse are you using the ford type with angled end? 

Your Megajolt must be different to the one I ran as the 2 map switch just went to earth 

Roger

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Hi Roy,

Good to hear from you!  You've been very quiet....... last seen on top of the Stelvio......

John, one thing that can mess up the VR sensor / EDIS is wrong polarity on the sensor.  Doesn't fry anything, just doesn't work.  Might be worth switching the wires over.  You also need the sensor to be fairly close to the trigger wheel - 0.25 - 0.5mm typically.

You can test the coil by briefly earthing the three trigger wires (ie the ones that are not the 12v supply) each of which should fire two plugs simultaneously.

Also, the cylinder numbers that may be marked on the Ford coil pack are WRONG for the Triumph firing order, though generally with this error one does get fire and noise, just in the wrong places......  The pairs should 1/6, 2/5 & 3/4.  The order of the pairs depends on how you have wired the primaries.  I usually have trouble with this bit......

Nick

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Hi John,

are your spark plugs the resistor type. I didn't believe they would make any difference until the car started immediately after I changed plugs.

Cheers,
Doug

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5 hours ago, dggt6 said:

Hi John,

are your spark plugs the resistor type. I didn't believe they would make any difference until the car started immediately after I changed plugs.

Cheers,
Doug

Hello  John

                    I use the Bosch type that Nick recommends only the later version the number is in the EFI thread 

Coil packs give a much bigger voltage than the old Lucas coils 

Roger

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