Jump to content
Nick Jones

Nick & Chris's Gt6 Mk 3

Recommended Posts

I used caustic soda first Tim.  It's had several hot caustic soda washes, followed by citric acid washes.  Between them they got it clean.  Now spoiled by this preparation stuff, so I'll have to try again.  I do have some phosphoric acid to try as the final prep instead.  Have to say that after the dismal performance of their prep stuff I'm very disinclined to try the actual sealing stuff (Tapox from Fertan)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've always been very suspicious of tank sealers.  If they fail, and they sometimes do, your tank is worse off than before the sealer.  I would only use sealers as a last resort to save an otherwise unrepairable tank.  I don't know if my tank was atypical, but most of the pitting was on the outside.  Virtually no pitting on the inside, so an outside repair seemed more sensible.

Ed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Engine going back together......

P1190349s.jpg

P1190351s.jpg

Backplate, flywheel and clutch also now fitted as well as oil filter adaptor and filter.  Just needs a head.  I'm still working on making it a bit less ugly......

All suspension bolts nipped up and propshaft fitted.  hand brake cable has been readjusted after 3 weeks pull on hard.  The cables do stretch!

Garage needs tidying....... again!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Backplate, flywheel and clutch fitted

P1190353s.jpg

Gearbox popped on the back (note prop under the OD - the engine stand quite rightly protested the added gearbox, without prop, as cruel and unusual treatment though much to it's credit it didn't actually buckle or fall over without......

Then borrowed an engine crane from work (nice Clarke one, but has had a hard life and somewhat afflicted by droop!) and this happened

P1190357s.jpg

Feels like a bit of a milestone and has certainly freed up a bit of space in the garage.

P1190355s.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

Feels like a bit of a milestone

Looks as though you are getting close to be able to make broom broom noises !

Ian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah...... doing the head at present, which is the only part of the extra engine I bought that I've actually ended up using.  It's as rough as the rest, but I'm feeling a bit over-spent at present so it's just getting a good clean (which it sorely needs!) and a light lapping of the valves.  I did find time this evening to take the die grinder to the short-side-radius on the inlets as they had a nasty core-shifty step in them.  Now much improved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Head going back together.  Note Pinto valve stem seals, only possible with single springs.

P1190363s.jpg

And head fitted

P1190367s.jpg

Rockers are a set I made up years ago for the Vitesse from new Rimmers rockers and a CW tuftrided shaft.  Then I read of problems with the rockers and decided I'd stick with the ones I had.  However, the three used sets I have have were all so disgustingly filthy (and probably knackered too - it's hard to tell!) I decided to give the new ones a try......

Don't be fooled by the presence of manifolds, carbs etc.  They are just thrown on for reference so Chris could work out the side panels and hose runs.  We discover that we are not sure what hose goes where at the heater end of things.......

We also discover that although we have more than one "set" of throttle linkage bits, they are in fact a motley collection of parts from different arrangements, none of which appear to belong to this manifold.  I've also become slightly re-acquainted with the joys of accessing the manifold nuts with the standard manifolds.  I'd happily forgotten this as the 6-3-1 and EFI pipes on the Vitesse don't have this issue!

P1190371s.jpg

Various rad mounts and cowls coming together.  Fan cowl will have rubber flaps

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Nick

                 I see you have fitted seals on the exhaust valves!

I wonder if this is we're I am getting my slight oil burning from as I only fitted the to the inlets

Plus I fitted bronze guides which have bigger clearances!

Another winter job? Or just use 500cc oil in 2000 miles?

Roger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Roger,

although it is quite easy to fit seals to the exhaust valves, i doubt if it makes any difference to oil consumption, and half a litre in 2,000 miles is exellent anyway. Bronze guides expand more than cast iron, so you should end up with the same running clearance when hot.

Alec

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, rogerguzzi said:

 I see you have fitted seals on the exhaust valves!

I wonder if this is we're I am getting my slight oil burning from as I only fitted the to the inlets

dont need seals on exhaust stems  unless you have a massive timing overlap, when inlet valves open you can suck oil down a stem, when exhaust opens you have positive pressure around the valve should push oil up around the stem. ok possible a bit of oil being dragged down exhaust stem as it opens but......

 

alan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fitted seals on all valves because:
- I was there and had the seals to hand.
- The guides and valves had seen a fair bit of action already though weren't hanging.
- Among my valve collection (though not specifically the ones from this head) I have some with massive build-up of carbon where oil has run down the stem and cooked on the back of the valve head.  This both on inlet (unsurprising) and exhaust (more surprising)

In general you don't loose a lot of oil down the guides (especially the exhaust valves) as there's not that much oil up there anyway - unless you have and unrestricted external rocker-feed pipe - in which case all bets are off!

I'd be happy with 500cc in 2000 miles Roger!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello All

              That is what I thought.

I now leave the oil about 1/8" to 3/16" below the full mark and it seems better?

I have a Newman PH2 camshaft fitted which is a 280 deg  30/70/70/30  with a 0.405 lift(I measured it as a bit less!) which is listed as a fast road cam with usable power 2000/6500 rpm and it seems to pull well from 2000rpm so has not spoilt the 1500 engine for torque(but it does seem to come alive from 3000rpm and goes straight to 5500rpm when on my own!)

No I do not have the Devils work of an external oil feed(removed it when I bought the car)going cheap if anyone wants it???

Roger

ps Taking our local TSSC group on a run Sunday over the Long Mynd!(shall I tell them about the 1 in5 to 1 in 7 decent? with no guard rails!)in fact the sign at the top says 25%!!! (1in 4?)

DSC00205.JPG

DSC00203.JPG

DSC00200.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Work continues, though I've got slack about reporting it.

Something of a landmark on Sunday was the cautious connection of a battery (no sparks or smoke!!).  We then worked through the various systems and found most things working.

Inevitably there were some oddities.  The indicators and hazards wouldn't work, which turned out to be the hazard switch fitted upside down, disguised by a non-working hazard flasher.  One rear indicator and one brake light not working (dodgy bulb holders), but otherwise, all was good.  Even the horn and OD solenoid worked.

Cooling system coming together, distributor (Delco, surprisingly un-knackered) cleaned up and fitted, final assembly of carbs and throttle linkage (my own interpretation of!) with the throttle pedal and choke now working.

Fuel system...… yeah.  Chris is swilling out the tank with citric acid again today.  After that...… :unsure:.  First fire-up within sight though.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bit more progress.

Fuel tank has now been acid cleaned again, pre-treated and slosh sealed - I hope!

Cooling system coming together.  Header tank selected, bracket made and a large selection of pipes captured from the scrapyard.

P1190373s.jpg

Tank in situ, connected into the heater/manifold return and with vent pipe connections to the the top of the radiator and thermostat housing.

P1190380s.jpg

Bulkhead is getting a bit crowded...... tank bracket has a hole in it for the solenoid coil..... can also be seen in pic 1.

P1190374s.jpg

P1190381s.jpg

Fuel lines an pump will be done tomorrow.  First fire-up end of next week hopefully......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The last couple of days have see some positive progress and some less positive.

Positive
- Clutch bled and working
- Brakes bled and working
- Cooling system completed (more or less), filled and holding water
- Fuel pipes run and pump mounted.  Fuel system complete. Fuel in tank - and staying in the tank!  Yay!

So yesterday was the day.  However......

Problem no. 1 was a big leak from the fuel pump, seemingly from the inlet side, which made no sense.  After some fiddling about this was traced to a hairline crack in the pump end moulding.  Araldite has fixed it for now but would like a new end moulding of possible - though they don't appear to be available.  This led to problem number 2 which was the obligatory Strombergs barfing fuel from their overflows.  I wasn't in the mood for prisoners so they each got a sharp whack, and remarkably, this worked.

Then removed the distributor and drive and spun up the oil pump with a drill.  This produced oil pressure quite promptly so put it all back together and timed the ignition to 8ºBTDC.  Checked for spark and got a nice fat one.

Turned the key and initially just got a dismal clacking and some smoke from the starter.  However this turned out to just be someone (ahem) forgetting to tighten the connection.  Try again and the engine turns over once and stops.  Try again and it turns, keeps turning and fires right up.  Oil pressure straight to 75psi, all 6 singing, sounding sweet and responsive. Yay....... but wait, look behind....... where has the house gone, and the church, just swirling blue-white cloud...... did I put that much oil in the cylinders.....?

So after 20 minute running at 2000 ish, blipping the throttle to bed the followers, it's up to temperature and still sounding sweet, but still smoking vigorously.  I've disconnected the brake servo to rule out brake fluid.  We've also had an incident involving the plastic oil pressure capillary and the exhaust manifold that was extremely messy and caused more smoke.....  We have to stop at this point as no cooling fan installed yet and the temperature is rising.  I did put petrol in it, not diesel.

Video shows maybe the 3rd start and all seems well at the front.  The smoke from the tail-pipe though....... :ohmy:  It's worse than it looks in the video and it is not steam.  

I've checked the plugs. 1 & 6 are black and sooty but only slightly sticky. 3 & 5 are still clean looking, but literally dripping with oil. 2 is somewhere in between and 4 looks nearly normal.  I've spoken to the engine machinist and apparently the rings supplied cannot be fitted upside down......  I did fit the rings, even the oil control rings....... though they don't appear to be working.......  Much as I'd like it to be my slightly ghetto head build, I don't believe there is enough oil going to the top end to explain the amount of smoke.........

 

Bollocks...... :mad:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To add.....

There is no breather system connected.  However, there is very little sign of blow-by so the compression rings seem to be working.  I've not yet done a compression test but suspect is will show all 6 are good.  It idles sweetly and picks-up crisply.  Mechanically it's very quiet and smooth.

It's got a set of GT's plasma plugs in it - simply because it turned out I'd given all my other spare plug sets away to PI owners with altitude stricken cars on the last 10CR.  They spark and continue to spark in spite of being oil soaked.....

I have no idea why I've got this problem.  Bores were honed and new rings fitted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Nick 

                  That is a B****r and here's me thinking I burn oil!

What make of rings are they?

The country pistons I fitted were made(I have forgotten where) but the rings said made in the USA on the packet! so that gave me a touch of confidence!

Roger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I may be wrong, but the video looks to me like it is smoking predominately when the throttle is released? Or is that just the video?

Phil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are all the plugs oily?

The head presumably had new guides? Or at least were checked? (I know you would have)

Bores seem the obvious one, but why is the question.

Can you do a leakdown test? (I find them more reliable than compression tests, plus you can find where pressure is going)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After doing a compression test the other week on the Vitesse dry then wet, I had loads of smoke out of the exhaust. I probably put a bit to much oil down the bores, but was concerned after 10 minutes of reving, I still had smoke bellowing out. It took a surprising amount of time for all the oil to burn off and that was after cleaning the plugs. So if there was any oil in the bores during rebuild, I think when you can run it longer the smoke will diminish and eventually clear. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

7 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

I've checked the plugs. 1 & 6 are black and sooty but only slightly sticky. 3 & 5 are still clean looking, but literally dripping with oil. 2 is somewhere in between and 4 looks nearly normal.

The guides are not new, but they weren't too bad.  Pinto-style stem seals are fitted on all 12 (perhaps they are working as pumps?)

It doesn't smoke much on idle - basically, the more you rev it, the more it smokes, though backing off and re-opening the throttle makes it worse. 

Mark, I very much want you to be right, but I'm not that hopeful.  Yes, the pistons were absolute slathered in oil when fitted and I put a fair bit more on top afterwards.  It then sat for a a few weeks with no head, but well covered up, and I oiled the bores again when the head was fitted - several weeks ago.  So yes, lots of oil put in, but this is what I always do and I don't recall ever getting more than a few seconds of smoke on first start before.

Anyway, I will compression test tomorrow (don't have a leak-

down tester or even a compressor).  Also sort the cooling fan so I can run it longer and try to burn the oil off.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

 

 

Anyway, I will compression test tomorrow (don't have a leak-

down tester or even a compressor).  Also sort the cooling fan so I can run it longer and try to burn the oil off.......

I am surprised! Compressors are dead handy, brilliant for blow gun etc etc. 

I made a ghetto leakdown tester from a knackered compression tester. You can hear where the air escapes....

 

I wonder if a good drive if the car and getting the rings to bed in hard would help? Guess it isn't quite ready for that yet....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s not far off driveable. Needs a seat bolting down and a seat belt. And numberplates......

Don't think following drivers would be very happy though!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fingers crossed it is an easy fix. But it is hateful when a car plays stupid games and doesn't give enough clues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...