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Nick & Chris's Gt6 Mk 3


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Oh yeah....... some of it was flowable, but I had to poke a screwdriver through the drain hole get it started.  The inside of the rocker box is amazingly crusty.

So closer examination shows that it’s had a freshen-up before. Bores honed, rings with step dodger, crank ground 0.010/0.010. Pistons and bores may go again. The crank seems likely to need grinding as the mains in particular are very coppery in the bottom halves and no 3 main has actually picked-up at some point as there is shell material on the crank. Big ends look better surprisingly - usually the other way around. Only no1 showing copper. Rear thrust washer worn to the point that the oil slots are gone.

I also noticed that the oil filter element appears to have blocked, then split. Might explain the state of the bearings......

Glad I didn’t give a lot for it!  May have to open the others up too :confused:

In other news, the radiator shop says the rad needs recoring @ £230 + vat. Poo!

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So the radiator went to the rad repairist......

The news could be better.  Basically it needs re-coring @ £ 230 + VAT :unsure:

Or, I could go for a Golf rad conversion similar to Chris's very nice one.  A new Golf rad costs £ 40.....  

Snags with the Golf conversion
- Non standard and outside of the basic "stock-build" ethos of the project (NIck is saying this....?! :huh:)
- Would like to use the Golf stock shroud, fan, switch and wiring as Chris did.  But I'm about 10 years too late in the scrapyards!

Decisions, decisions.....

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1 hour ago, Nick Jones said:

The news could be better.  Basically it needs re-coring @ £ 230 + VAT 

phone around a bit, when i got the vitesse one done winter 2017, the company i used in gloucester found one of their other national branches had an old vitesse core in stock still at 1990 price, so got the whole job done including rotating the filler cap where i wanted for under £150, the national chains are likelyto have seen less demand than the specialists.

 

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£40 for a gold rad? mine was 99p (but £9 delivery, what a rip-off)

Not sure what you got Chris's one from, but my golf rad is from a mk3 golf, should be plenty in the scrapyards (we don't get scrapyards near me, the best I get offered is a trade counter in a car recyclers...)

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Yeah, was wondering about Mk3 Golf as ISTR they are a lot like the Mk2.  Chris's came from Bruce as a complete package and works brilliantly, even the two stage fan though I don't think we've ever had the second stage come in except as a simulation.

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My oroginal rad came with teh last Zetec package and was a mk2 GTi rad with the 2 speed fan. I used teh shroud/fan on my new rad, extending the shroud with 2 lengths of steel. Fan let me down on our first 10CR (thought we were out on the first day, the noise was dreadful) . But advanced heat management techniques meant we got to the end. Repolaced with a good used fan, but that failed about 2 years later. Now fitted a Spal to the shroud by welding some small tabs on. I refused to buy a £20 "OEM type" fan, I hold them in utter contempt.

Think the core on mine is 520x320, 1.6 mk3 golf. 

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Nick,

 

I have an alloy Golf mk2 rad in my mk2 GT6 c/w a header tank on the bulkhead beside the m/cyls and associated pipework, seems to work. Even used cut down GT6 bottom hoses. The design follows that used by Roy Lacey on his mk1 GT6, he uses a Vauxhall plastic header tank, I have used a alloy header tank from Merlin. The overflow hose is half clamped by the bonnet tube which is in the wrong position, Fitchett bonnet following the bad smash. 

 

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Thanks Tim. Might just buy a Golf rad and make my own shroud for use with a modern low profile fan. The VW one might be a bit long for 6 pot Triumph anyway. Or mod a VW shroud if I can find one.

What does the jury think about engine side panels? 

Don't seem to have anything in the parts pile......

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The consensus seems to be that the cars run cooler with side panels. 

I keep thinking about this, and the only explanation I can come up with is that air is dragged away under the car, and the side panels means the air is pulled through the rad and down around the engine, rather than pulled in from the sides. Or at least less is pulled in from the sides. As to how effective, nobody has posted figures, and there are so many running without I can't see it being a big issue.

When I had (in a dim and distant past) a GT6, I used the panels and didn't just dump them. I think the cars look a bit tidier, but then again I like the simple look of no panels. I am a tortured being.

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I think that the cowelling in front of the radiator has an important role in cooling, except in the Vitesse, where the rad is immediately behind the grille.   The wide open spaces betwen them in other models allow air to escape to the side and avoid the matrix.     Air flow is so complex that I suspect that the side panels behind the wheel arches will function differently at diffrent speeds.    Certainly my rear radiatored Vitesse, which was fine on the road at any speed, would overheat on the track, when speed might be 20mph greater.   No side panels, but the variation of air flow at speed.

JOhn

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57 minutes ago, zetecspit said:

When I had (in a dim and distant past) a GT6, I used the panels and didn't just dump them.

So were they nasty cardboard things that crumble to nothing like the Spitfire ones, or something more substantial?  They appear to have fallen by the wayside at some point :ermm:

59 minutes ago, zetecspit said:

I am a tortured being

Can relate......

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Nick

Original side valances and rad shroud are the usual 'nasty cardboard'. I have always run with them but my originals were missing sections at the rear.

I have remade using the  original metal work (a light angle section along the top), with hardboard scored and folded with epoxy resin coating and glass reinforcement at the folds. Painted satin black they look pretty much original. My rad shroud is folded aluminium, with side cheeks extended forward as much as the bonnet will allow. The shroud and valences join through the forward web of the radiator supports.

They certainly help keep the engine clean and there is an argument that they might help airflow (but not quite sure how). There is still quite a gap between top of valance and the bonnet.

If you are going for the Golf radiator the valances will not need the crank (much if at all) , so might be more straightforward to make.

Ian

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Thanks all.... they certainly should be ali.....  Will negotiate with my metal-basher......... He made nice ones for his Spitfire.

News from my engine machinist.  The crank needs only a polish.  The bores are 0.006" oval from wear and should be re-bored to avoid disappointment.  This wasn't the answer I was looking for, but not entirely unexpected.

 

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3 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

What does the jury think about engine side panels? 

 

hate them, always in the way. if you have carbs and headers,there is way too much hot air already there, and funnelling the very hot air from the rad back under the carbs and around the header pipes as well? as jd said front ducts on spit gt6 i think do serve a useful purpose otherwise i think the air goes chaotic in that large space and bounces off and around the rad rather than through

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So I stripped the bottom end removed from the Vitesse in 2015. Looks like it may actually be better than the first attempt. It may have had a fairly hard life since falling into my hands in 1989, but at least it’s had regular oil changes!

What was unexpected was the discovery that it had AE Glacier tin/aluminium bearings fitted to both big ends and mains rather than the Vandervell VP2s the factory would have fitted. These are standard size and in excellent condition in spite of the 70k hard miles I've put on it. I have no idea how they got there. The engine didn’t show any other signs of being opened before....... but maybe it too has had a freshen up before it came to me, or maybe I did it and have forgotten - I hope not, but it was 30 years ago........  I await the verdict on bores and pistons......

This engine is about 2000 units newer than the first one and has the later rear main oil seal housing with seal removable from the outside. It also has an aluminium bodied oil pump with gauze ball strainer, whereas the first one has a cast iron pump with rectangular pick-up.  This may be because the oil pump was replaced when the bearings were fitted.......

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Yesterday I bought a new Golf GTI radiator for a 10th of the price of re-coring the old one.

Today I collected some later seats with headrests.  These have had new covers fitted (black, not especially nice ones) and, unexpectedly, new foams.  Had all suffered somewhat from "storage" in the open, but are now dismantled to dry out.  I'll be fitting different covers as I don't want black, so the black ones will be up for grabs if anyone wants them.

I'm getting very slack about taking pics...... must try harder!!

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Hi Nick,

I discovered your build thread today and I think it's brilliant. I am nearing the end of the welding stage on the tub of my own GT6. When repairing the roof/windscreen area, I used a section from the top rail off a Spitfire. Like you, I also opted to remove the external seam and go for the smooth look. I am happy with the repair but I am puzzled as to how I will finish off the roof gutters at the front. Would you put up a close-up photo to show how your;s has turned out. I am considering closing them off at the front or maybe  "curving them into the roof" 

Something like this but without the "downturn"  ??

Image result for GT6 roof seam

 

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