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Rover 100 Axle Length

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Gday guys,

Would anyone happen to know the length of the bare short side axle for a rover 100?

And mgf bare short side axle would probably be handy too. I am looking to devote a bit of time to finding an alternative axle for subaru diff rotoflex conversions. Cheers

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I don't have the sizes. However, I have a subaru diff in my car, and the Rover 100 shafts I had fitted using Nicks CV conversion are working just fine.

The shafts sit the contact inside the CV pretty central. However, the Karl Dandridge shafts are 20mm longer. 

 

The MGF shafts won't fit, too short IIRC when I had some to compare.

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I'm looking as rover 100's do not really exist in this part of the world (nor now do they aywhere else I guess) I am hoping to find something from a Japanese import that will fill the void. The inner race of my subaru inner joints are 21 spline- there are a few nissan's and mazda's which have the same spline and/or and use tripod joints of the same size. I'm hoping to be able to find the right parts to mix and match to make up a custom cv from easy to find used parts. Nissan March/Micra short axles are looking good. They have the right spline, outer cv uses a 68mm wheel bearing. Toyota starlet is similar, but with a different inner spline.

Problem is I don't want to go having to pull and buy heaps of axles to find the right length. I know the rover ones fit with suby diff, so if I can find the measurement I can narrow down the lengths of the shafts I have to buy to try out to give or take 10mm. I am sure there is something out there dead common that will work, it's just a case of looking through it.

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I have posted pictures of the various Rover shafts with markings and dimensions.......

R100 manual

R100 Auto

MGF

........ before.  Of course I can't find the picture right now.

 

I can find this

CV shafts 004m.jpg

 

FYI Ford Focus and some Fiesta outer CVs fit the Rover hub spline.  The Focus driveshaft is too long by some margin. Fiesta may be better but not yet managed to lay hands on one.

 

The hubs from may FWD cars are very similar and would offer different spline choices.  Some would probably need a different bearing to suit the spigot diameter and apart from the R100, MGF, Montego and Maestro, all will have a different wheel stud PCD.

 

Nick

 

 

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Thanks Nick- yes I am sure you have posted before but I cant find them- Ive scoured the site but I think it must have been before the website change, so may well be lost. I am not too concerned with pcd as I run a 4x100 front. I think I am looking for shafts 480-500mm in length with an inner spline of 21, 23 or something that uses the same size inner joint cup as the suby. Nissans use the same (or similar) hitachi diffs, so I am hopeful part sharing extended to cv's. How hard can it be right?.....

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That looks like a good prospect Steve.  Have you used these?  I know the late 90s/early 00s Focus/Fiesta outer CV fits the R100/MGF hub.  Fiesta shafts may even be a usable length - I have some Focus shafts ones and they are WAY too long.......

Nick

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Hubs from MGF, Rover 100 ("new" Metro), Maestro & Montego are all the same.  The critical point is the  fairly unusual 95.5 wheel nut pcd.  If you don't care about that then the world opens right out, though matching bearing dimensions may vary.

Nick

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Brace yourself- These are my musings - but I cant test any of it until I have my bench chassis rig set up- or know the bare shaft length of the R100- which I cannot for the life of me find!

 First off- I've a question about Plunge. As the wheel moves through it's range of motion in rotoflex, is the axle more likely to move away from the diff (get longer) or towards it (get shorter)? Ideally the shaft would sit somewhere in the middle of the inner joint- but if it doesn't - is it better to be at rest position closer to wheel side or diff side?

C.v shaft lengths off the net are no good really. It is the bare shaft length that is important and that means pulling them out and to bits!

21 Gap Subaru inner joints (early legacy, imprezza) will fit

*Some* Nissan Micra/March k11  19 spline (internal) outer cv

Nissan Micra/March K12

Nissan Note E11

80's Ford Laser

 

22 Gap Subaru (Forrester, Imprezza) inner joints will fit- 

Nissan march k11 (post 2000ish)   some 19 spline (internal) outer cv, some 22 spline (internal) outer cv.

Mazda 323 BF,  Ford Laser 90s, Mx5 NA etc           22 spline (internal) outer cv.

Nissan Sentra N14, N15, Pulsar etc.    23 spline (internal) outer cv.

Mitsubishi Mirage 90's

23 Gap Subaru inner joints will fit-

Most 90/00 Corollas, Starlets and their derivatives.

Many Mitsubishi- galant, lancer etc

 

Hubs and bearings that fit machined Rotoflex uprights- (68mm OD Bearing)

Nissan March K11 

Toyota Starlet EP91 et al, 

MGF, R100 etc

One of the Renaults- I'm not sure which.

Sooooo, There are some combinations that fit together, but their usability is as yet untested as I HAVEN'T TESTED THE LENGTH FITTED- it just looks close to my roto shaft +/- 3cm as the suby diff is narrower UNTESTED AS OF YET!!

1)   Nissan March/Micra K11 1L shaft and 19 spline outer Cv + 21 spline Subaru inner. These do fit and the bearing would just be machined into the rotoflex upright like the mgf one. Obviously the pcd is 4x100 so you'd need to re-drill. The big problem is this- the shaft is from a 997cc engined car. That may be okay for a herald 1200, but you only really fit a suby diff if you are going to put power through it- I just don't know if it is up to the job on anything with torque.

2) Nissan Micra/March 1.3L shaft and 22 spline outer Cv + 22 spline Subaru inner. Outer CV is beefier than the 1L cars (same size as mgf one). Bearing is the same (68mm OD). This all looks pretty promising, unfortunately however the 1.3 version of the car is a fair bit rarer than the 997cc and I don't have one to test (yet). Is the 1.3 axle up to the job?

3) Mazda 323 BF shaft + 22 spline Subaru inner. I think these are like the fiesta, Focus etc- Mazda and Ford badge engineered cars. They are 22 splines both inner and outer, so they fit into the Nissan March 1.3 Outer Cv and probably the MGF too. There are 1.3, 1.6 and 1.8 versions of the car that use the same inner Cv's  including Auto and Manual- There are all kinds of lengths. The one I have is from a manual- it is approximately 10mm shorter than the Micra/March shaft and very beefy. It will be up to the job it the length is good.

4) Nissan Sentra B13, N14 (probably others) The inner side of the bare shaft is 22 spline the outer is 23 spline. Flipped over, it plugs into the Subaru 22 spline inner joint and into a 23 spline Toyota Starlet outer Cv.   Again 4x100 pcd. Again, bearing is much the same as mgf one (68mm OD). Outer cv is beefy, as is the shaft. I think there is something in this version as the parts are so plentiful and cheap. There is a small range of shaft lengths with engine capacity and transmission.

5) Toyota shaft? Lot's of these through the 90's had both 23 spline inner and outer joints. The Starlet one I have is obviously too long, but I'm betting there is a Corolla (probably Auto) that will work using the Subaru 23 spline Inner joint (later imprezza, forrester) and the Starlet outer. I know it is out there somewhere.

There is a chap on the net called SuperDave  http://wordpress.suberdave.com/?page_id=275  

He makes inner c.v conversion parts for Datsuns, Subaru's by swapping in custom races- this is an interesting option. 

 

For standard diff Rotoflex cars I think there might be something in using Mx-5 inner joints with simple adaptors to the triumph companion flange, and then a mazda 323/familia/ford shaft to Nissan Micra/March k11 or MGF outer Cv's. Might be easier than sourcing Volvo bits. Has anyone heard of anyone using those inner joints?

More as it happens!

 

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Somewhere I have a dimensioned photo of the R100 shaft...... can't find it right now.

I have a fully assembled CV shaft I can measure and also a R100 one, currently fully dressed but due dismantling.  I won't be doing that until the temperature has gone up at least 10ºC though!

I measured 11mm driveshaft length change with the standard roto setup.  It is shortest at full droop, longest when the shaft is horizontal (close to normal run position) and shortens again on bump, though not quite as much as full droop IIRC.

The Volvo CVs can do 18mm length change.  Not sure what their official rating is.  It's a bit close for comfort, but works.  Most lobros of the same body width should manage the same.  According to the catalogues there are wider ones with more plunge ability - never seen one in the wild.  The tripod joints typically used with Scooby diffs have much larger plunge ratings.

You musings and info are much appreciated by the way - another solution is needed!

Nick

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Thanks Nick,,

Im quite glad to hear that the travel within the joint is shortest at droop- and longest at horizontal. I suspected as much, but 'plunge' always sounds like it is going in to me!  The hard part is finding shafts that are short enough- as long as there is some clearance (5mm?) from the end of the inside of the joint at horizontal it sounds like something may work. Which means that even the longest shaft I have on the shelf, from a Starlet, may still be a contender.

I'll pull off an inner joint from an mx-5 next time I am at the wreckers and measure the plunge. A few Nissans and vans use a joint that is fairly similar which Ill take a look at. 

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To answer your question Nick, No i haven't used the Newer Fiesta shafts.. I managed to pick up a few years ago an older Fiesta set. and the old and new look the same from a distance... 

Although i have not yet installed in the car, i can not confirm their size fit with Subby Stub axles. 

I did pull them of the Stub axle on the weekend and measured from edge that fits against the MGF bearing, and the end of the axle, See pic 420mm

The Subby Diff has around 55mm plunge. Hopefully in the next couple of months i will have installed and comment further.

20180302_172107_resized (002).jpg

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just re-read this, must have been drinking. I can confirm the fit of of the old Fiesta shafts into the Subby Stub axle, but not confirm the travel distance is perfect yet.

Although it does have around 55mm travel BUT bench test looks ok. I did have to get a few Subby stub axles to find the right ones. (the larger diameter size fit)

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I was building a second driveshaft for the GT6 yesterday and took this pic to which I've added dimensions.  Red id overall length and orange is between the seating points for the CVs.  Hope this answers the question!  This is a Rover 100 (metro) driveshaft from a manual TX car.  Auto ones are about 20mm shorter.  MGF ones are also shorter but not exactly the same as the auto ones when measured as a complete assembly, though this could be because the inner CV is different. I've never checked to see whether the MGF and R100 auto bar lengths are the same as I've never bothered to dismantle an MGF one.....

P1170903smc.jpg

Nick

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YOU BLOODY LEGEND!

Thanks Nick!   That's the hard bit sorted then.  I'll look through some axles I have in storage tomorrow arvo and see what comes close.

Cheers,, Arlo

 

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