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roulli

J Type Single Rail Won't Fit Into Herald 13/60

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Good afternoon,

I'm currently in the process of fitting a J-type single rail GB  from a Spitfire 1500 to the Herald 13/60.

Small disc with 20 splines from Marina 1,3l is being used to mate..

The rear of the engine has been lifted to mount the gearbox.

 

But now, that there is only 1cm left for the clutch bell to meet the rear engine plate, I notice that the exit flange of the OD won't pass the props haft tunnel of the Herald.

 

Also the holes of the rubber mounting under the J-type OD are not aligned (about 1 inch to the rear) with the holes in the mounting plate fixed to the chassis. 

 

  • Does this mean I have in any case  to cut the tunnel on the Herald to get this gearbox fitted?
  • Could it be, that the original engine mounts are knackered, so that the engine has moved rearward? The rubber is partly not connected to the metal but it doesn't look distorted, seen from the top.
  • Is there a source of good quality engine mounts or are they all rubbish and worse than the original ones?

 

Thanks for advising.

 

 

 

Cheers,

Patrick

 

 

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Patrick,

 

It will fit (I had one in mine years ago and the car still exists in Perth WA).  However, it is not the easiest one to do as this gearbox is 1" longer than the 3 rail gearbox (D-type or J-type) and the J-type is relatively bulky.

 

You will need to cut a piece out of the tunnel and make a cover plate to go over the hole.  You will also need to modify the mounting plate.  Note that there is a tendency to mount the gearbox too high at the back which can cause the propshaft to catch on the bottom of the handbrake when you carry passengers (makes a scary noise!) so you need to watch out for this when making the plate.

 

Due to the extra inch of length there is no standard propshaft which fits (you can use a Vitesse non-OD /T2000 one with the 3 rail boxes) so you will have to get one shortened or specially made.  Some say you can pack the engine mounts to move the engine/box forward enough  - I'm not liking this approach.....

 

It is worth it in the end though.  The single rail box is a bit stronger and has a really nice change plus overdrive in a Herald is a GOOD thing!

 

Good luck!

 

Nick

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Thanks a lot Nick for the advice!

 

Propshaft will be customized from at a local shop. It's not the tube that's going to be expensive...

Concerning engine mounts, is there currently no supplier who  offers decent quality?

 

 

Cheers

Patrick

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Engine mounts....... decent quality.......  I don't know for sure.  Most rubber goods for classic cars (not just Triumphs) seems to be complete rubbish these days.  I can only suggest using one of the more reputable suppliers (Canley Classics, Bill Davies at Rarebits) but I have no recent personal experience.

 

Nick

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I second Nick's advice on the mounts. If Bill says they're rubbish, they're rubbish. He may have done a batch of Polyurethane ones...

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I did this conversion in my 13/60.

Don`t remember any grief with the mounting,the o/d plate just bolted in where the old one was.I used a shortened Vitesse prop(1 inch off).You only have to trim the tunnel a little to get at the prop bolts from above.

 

The only problem ive had is crap gearbox mountings that disintigrate after a couple of thousand miles causing clonking when pulling away as the back of the box moves.

 

Certainly well worth it as you dont have to rev the knackers off it to cruise at a decent speed.I did the last RBRR in mine and it was great.

Steve

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Thanks for the input Steve

Here are 2 pics to describe the situation

 

The clutch bell may still move 1cm forward until it docs to the rear engine plate.

 

I hope that the  holes of the silentblock will meet the holes of the mounting plate once the gearbox has completely docked and the tunnel has been trimmed.

 

Patrick

 

 

2048-18482.jpg

 

2048-18487.jpg

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That doesn`t look like the same mounting plate to mine..i have to replace the starter motor in the next few days so i will take a photo.

Steve

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It isn`t the same,it is a larger squarer plate with the original mounting holes the same as the non O/D one.It has a bit welded on the back  with two sets of mounting holes for the O/D mount(for different boxes?),dont know what car its from though.

 

It also has large round holes for the bolts to access the filter from below.

Sorry tried to post a picture but it wants a URL.

Send me an PM with a mail address and i`ll send you a pic.

 

I looked at Rimmers diagrams and can`t see it on there.

Steve

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Is your OD J-type or D-type? The latter is 1" shorter and they might have different mountings.

 

I PMed you my email address

 

Thanks

Patrick

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Plate is different.  Mine looked like the standard non-OD plate with a bit welded on at the back to take the OD mounting - because that is what is was.  However it was more or less a copy of a proper one.  I still had problems with height (propshaft catching on handbrake housing as mentioned above) and ended up mounting the plate upside down to the underside of the chassis mounting points.  This made it a bit too low, but easy to pack up to right level.  Don't have any pics as it was all pre digital era!

 

Nick

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Here's the picture of Steve's mounting plate.

Looks pretty much like what you're describing Nick.

 

But what the silent block, which is partly masked by the speedo cable, looks more  like a steel bracket.

 

Patrick

2048-18493.jpg

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The mount is the standard overdrive rear mount available,they are mostly crap rubber that degrades fast.

I didn`t think the bracket was a home made modified non o/d one,it has all the lips and folds round the edge.I may be wrong because i bought the complete box,lever and bracket from e bay for £110.

 

Its been perfect except for a sticky solenoid before the RBRR

Steve

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I think the "proper" brackets come from Spitfires with overdrive though I'm not sure whether these differ between model years.  They are easy enough to modify anyway.  I had a similar arrangement on my Vitesse which had a single rail 1850 based hybrid 'box with J-type before I went 5 speed.

 

Nick

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I cut the tunnel back a bit, so I could lower the engine and gearbox down.

The holes of the silent block and the mounting plate appear to match, IF I could dock the bell to the rear engine plate.

It always blocks at around 1/2", when I try to tighten the bolts and the engine plates starts to bend.

 

It's immediately after the splines engage with the clutch disk (when the OD flange can't be turned anymore)

 

I don't understand why it get's stuck as I used the plastic centering tool prior tightening the clutch.

The Marina disc matched the gearbox,

The plastic tool matched the Marina disc (splines), and it matched the pilot bearing in the crankshaft/flywheel

 

Can the disc shift during assembly, due to a non-aligned approach?

 

Cheers

Patrick

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Does sound like the clutch disc is not properly centered.  Is the clutch actuating lever still free to move at the point it sticks.

 

Fitting these boxes is no fun at all.  They are SO heavy!  Fitting a couple of 100mm lengths of 5/16" UNF studding (or some long bolts with the heads cut off) in place of the top two studs helps alot by taking the weight of the bellhousing end at the critical time.

 

Nick

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For the record, single rail J  type box has finally fit the Herald.

The disc hadn't shifted but due to my bumbling incompetence the entrance shaft had slightly cold-formed the entrance of the splines.

I removed the ridges with a triangular file and the second attempt paired with a finer manipulation of the jack made the gearbox slide into pilot bearing quite straightly.

 

I followed as well Nick's advice to fit longer studs on the top of the engine. This helped to improve the guide. Thanks Nick!

 

Today I placed an order for a customized prop-shaft at a local shop. They will manufacture it from scratch for this Friday and ask 330,-EUR + VAT.

It's not cheap, but then it comes with high quality GKN U-Joints and with a robust  fine-spline sliding element.

Hope to get rid of the awful vibrations, I had  with the original spring-stuff-shaft...

 

Cheers

Patrick

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Good work!  â‚¬330 seems like quite a lot, but anything is better than those crappy strap drive things!

 

The long studs idea is not mine, just passed on - glad it worked for you.

 

Cheers

 

Nick

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