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Triumph Pi Efi Project

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Hi, having being inspired by the good work of Nick on his EFI projects i am about to embark on an efi project on my triumph pi, i've had enough of the mechanical injection system, it simply will not play ball on my highly modified engine.

 

To date i have accumulated the following parts;

 

bosch fuel pump conversion

megasquirt 1 efi ecu

vauxhall omega engine injection loom, injectors, and matching crank sensor,

4 wire lamba sensor,

vauxhall omega coil pack

2 plug temperature sensor conversion.

edis 6 and loom plug with wires

mg 52mm throttle body ( welded onto plenum chamber ready to bypass exisiting butterflies)

adjustable fuel pressure regulator upto 200 psi

 

I still need the fuel rail, looking at the ross machine racing setup, does anybody have any spare 2ft lengths and the cutting tool that they wish to sell on?

 

what else do i need?

 

Also my ecu has been set up for a 4 pot car, can anybody advise if i need to rewire it? or is it case of changing the firmware?

 

my plan is to build this kit and learn from it ready to do another conversion on my TR6 which is looking like it will be ready in the spring

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Hi, having being inspired by the good work of Nick on his EFI projects i am about to embark on an efi project on my triumph pi, i've had enough of the mechanical injection system, it simply will not play ball on my highly modified engine.

 

To date i have accumulated the following parts;

 

bosch fuel pump conversion

megasquirt 1 efi ecu

 

**************************

 

what else do i need?

 

Also my ecu has been set up for a 4 pot car, can anybody advise if i need to rewire it? or is it case of changing the firmware?

 

my plan is to build this kit and learn from it ready to do another conversion on my TR6 which is looking like it will be ready in the spring

 

Good plan.

 

I suggest getting a M/S STIM unit too (Jim Stim??) to test any changes off the car first.

 

And perhaps do the EDIS and the M/S as separate mini projects - so you know they are both working OK, before joining them together?

Have a look at the recent posts by member ' Triumph-V8 ' I have found them very informative & helpful.

 

Good luck & keep us posted on progress

Peter in Melbourne

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Would prefer a wideband sensor like innovate LC-1

over the 4 wire sensor.

 

"Normal" sensors only detect precisely AFR=14.7

what is not of interest in most of our cases

as we do not use a catalytic converter.

 

We prefer lean mixture on cruising (>15AFR)

and rich mixture on full throttle (=12.7-13AFR)

and all between that depending on the load on the engine.

 

The Megasquirt can first follow the fuel mapping

and than follow a second mapping for AFR targeting.

 

Also it can setup itself after coarse setup.

 

Both is requiring the Wideband sensor

to let the MS see what is going on in the engine.

 

Both extends the quality of the setup to a higher level.

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Also my ecu has been set up for a 4 pot car, can anybody advise if i need to rewire it? or is it case of changing the firmware?

 

Setup for different engines is done by software and, as Peter says, it helps much

to play along at home with the Stim and the Laptop connected to MS to become familiar.

 

Take Tunerstudio and aim for latest Software for MS1 (029y4) because only this one

can use the famous "autotune" function of Tunerstudio.

This is MS-extra code that extends the original version of B&G

especially if you want to use ignition control on MS1

what was not in view on the early days of MS1.

 

Now you can play and learn what is going on

without doing harm to the engine.

The stim simulates the engine

and the lap shows you the behaviour

on changes.

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My ebay megasquirt arrived in the post today, on lifting the lid i have discovered it is a genuine V2.2 system, some of the jumper wires look a bit rough and ready and there is a loose wire with a cap on the end hanging loose!

 

It came with the Edis 4 module which is surplus to requirements, as i have an Edis 6.

 

Do i need Edis with a version 2.2?

 

sorry for the basic questions

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The loom appears to have an 8 pin plug which i think may be for a wideband sensor, for the sake of £50 on ebay i am tempted to get one. the question is which one should i get?

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It appears that it makes sense to build up the MS from scratch

like Bowling and Grippo recommended since they started their DIY project.

 

Now I would recommend to download and read the whole literature for MS1 with 2.2 board

and be happy that you do not have to do the soldering or wiring

but there are so many hints that will help later on. You get it there:

 

http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html

 

Unfortunately it seems that they do not support the old 2.2 board

but as it is still sold it must be listed somewhere.

 

The wideband sensor is a special one that needs a computer interface to work.

You can not plug it directly to a wideband input.

Also what the computer interface says must be understood from the Megasquirt.

It is necessary to have a additional direct gauge from the wideband sensor to see correct AFR

and look what the Megasquirt makes from the information because all relys on this.

A table to transform the information is required and both the MS and the wideband computer

have such a table that can be edited to achieve that the reading on MS will be precise.

 

EDIS is EDIS and you are right, you need an EDIS6

from that you take a signal to Megasquirt for rpm trigger

and send it back after a defined time. (PIP and SAW)

 

EDIS knows from the missing tooth for what cylinder this pulse is.

Receiving and sending must be in close limits

otherwise EDIS thinks something is wrong and refuses the information

and goes to 10 degrees BTDC and fires.

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hi thanks for the reply, i have found the build manual for the 2.2 board and i have read about 1/2 of it, I am beginning to get the gist of how it works, I thought I read that 2.2 supports wideband, or do i need the daughter card?

 

my biggest issue is the lack of a billet fuel rail at the moment, i have virtually everything else to start installing the system. I think i will need the jimstim too.

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Hi Carl,

 

You can connect wideband to MS1 on 2.2 board but it requires the full external wideband controller (as do the other MS versions) such as Innovate LC1, Techedge or various others. Well worth having.

 

I don't think I have any pre-machined fuel rails left but I might have an unmachined length. Alternatively

http://trigger-wheels.com/store/contents/en-uk/d51.html That is a pretty good price as although the Ross Machine price is lower the shipping from the USA is most unreasonable.

 

The best info for MS1 ver 2.2 is on the MSExtra site

http://www.msextra.com/forums/index.php you'll have to be running extra to get ignition control anyway.

 

Cheers

 

Nick

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jimstim and megasquirt v1 with 3.0 board kit purchased for the tr6 tonight, i will need to build this one from scratch..... let the learning commence.

 

i am now looking for a suitable wideband controller and sensor, need the trigger wheel and fuel rail then i am nearly ready to start the build.

 

James/nick do you know which size trigger wheel i need? is there an off the shelf one i can buy that will fit a triumph crank with minimal fettling?

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For the wideband I'd go for the TechEdge as it looks like it'll mount better than an LC-1 (if those are the two main choices)

 

Trigger wheel size — how are you going to mount it?

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gallery_1431_55_26536.jpg

 

6.5" massive 36-1 wheel from Trigger Wheels Com,

cut out on the lathe to step and center on the back of the pulley.

Also they are balanced individually and later together when mounted.

Although theoretically pulley mass is swinging to reduce torsion of crank

in practice you get a rocksteady signal with the strobe compared to distributor.

 

gallery_1431_55_21787.jpg

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i had not thought of machining the pulley back, that is superb! I know a man with a lathe that is partial to beer too.... i wonder......

 

Have managed to secure a wideband LC1 kit, and a fuel rail (with many thanks to Nick!)

 

So i guess the next bit is to start building the jimstim, and installing the edis.

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The megasquirt v2.2 works, have even tweaked it with the latest firmware, which was a learning curve....

 

The best news is that I have built and tested my ms1 v3, and a jimstim V2.2 from scratch, it was fairly straight forward.

 

It only took 2 soldering iron tips and about 7 hours of very late night working, feeling quite proud of myself. I now just need to get a base map (Thanks Nick) and get my trigger wheel machined.

 

I have cheated a bit with the wiring and purchased the relay board (looks to give a cleaner install on the car) i suspect i may be able to start fitting the kit next weekend.

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The best news is that I have built and tested my ms1 v3, and a jimstim V2.2 from scratch, it was fairly straight forward.

What I always say: You have to learn all that stuff anyway during install

why not step by step when building up without getting confused?

 

Congratulations and hopefully the install and start will continue that smooth!

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I don't like the relay board — as the guy that built my MS pointed out — screw terminals in a car?

 

It's very easy to build your own relay system — see the link in my signature.

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picked up my vintage lathe tonight so machining of the crank pulley and throttle bodies can start at the weekend.

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ok just finished first attempt at machining the trigger wheel and pulley, and got a good steady tolerance fit, however i am not sure if i need to put a recess behind the teeth or if the teeth can sit flush with the pulley face..

 

thoughts please..

 

it turns out my metal lathe is a very rare museum piece, relmac only a handfull survive apparently (ooh the joys of ebay)

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I got a recess put in for the fan boss — just so it sat square (or round?)

 

Not sure how you are mounting yours?

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Watch my 2nd picture.

If it's about what I think

you see the recess.

It is about 3mm.

 

It works without that, I am sure

but with a little effort you are on the safe side.

If you have later the "hickups" and can not locate

you will be happy to exclude that as a possible reason.

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i have machined mine the same as the that posted by triumph V-8's post, i satoped short of adding the extra recess towards the outer edge as this would remove the numbers on the damper, however I guess they are not really needed with the electronic distribution.

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Yes, they suffer a little bit

but as it is a good idea

to mark the TDC line red

and maybe the 30 degree line white

you always know where you are

because the lines are still visible.

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a bit of an update, all major machine work done, going to try and start preparing the PI for its mini overhaul this weekend, need to rip the dash out to sort the broken heater matrix, and find the leak in the window seal, then tidy the wiring, and start fitting the EFI kit.

 

How do you post pictures on here?

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Sounds like progress is being made. Good luck with the windscreen leak - they can be a bit of a feature on these!

 

Posting pictures - either use the "more reply options" button on bottom left (it becomes reasonably obvious) or link to photobucket, Vimeo or whatever.

 

Cheers

 

Nick

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