Updating Ms2

[toofast2race]

Excuse me for asking what may be a simple question but how easy and reliable is it to update MS2 firmware to MS2 Extra? I would like to gain 16 x 16 Fuel table and also Closed loop idle control. I believe I am running v2.89 firmware.

 

Is it purely a software update using Tuner Studio MS as the interface?

[Triumph-V8]

Much easier and faster than to post here.

You need a reliable power supply to the MS and the software, best 3.2.1.

Done in two steps first you have to set the jumper on the CPU board,

load the "loader" to the MS2 and disconnect the jumper and than flash the programm.

Next extra-updates can than be done without opening the MS2 and jumper.

 

Properly explained steps in the flashing software, you will be unable to fail!

Unfortunately many of the settings are lost or different.

So make a backup of tables first and note settings.

Direct reading of the B&G msq file to retain settings may not be possible.

Be prepared to have nonsense keyed in some Arrays you never have changed.

 

But 16x16 table in my opinion is not necessary

more a pain than a help, 8x8 is a bit poor.

I use 12x12.

So if the only reason to change is the table

you should think twice!

[Triumph-V8]

oh....

you need the special flashing software coming with the extra software,

not TunterStudio. It is easy to use, but the work is hidden in the new setup!

Make good backups from everything first to be able to step back

to the present running system if setup becomes too difficult.

[James]

Special tuning software? TunerStudio is what you need.

 

Go for it Andy - it has a few good additions such as a revised accelerator pump (I think, the MS3 does and I think this was backported) - along with better MAP sampling, better accuracy with regard timing etc

[Nick Jones]

I have B & G 2.89 on the Vitesse and now MsExtra 3.2.1 on the PI having gone through 2.89 and an earlier version of Extra.

 

I have to say that I'm not completely happy with either of the Extras I've tried (though 3.2.1 is better). I'm not absolutely sure it's fair to blame the firmware as I've had so may mechanical issues along the way but whereas the Vitesse is always dead consistent, always runs well and always returns similar mpgs, I cannot seem to get the PI the same way. Initially, on 2.89 it ran very well and I was getting lower 30s mpg, even though the engine was shot. Changing to extra messed up the maps for some reason ( I exported and imported so the numbers were the same but it doesn't seem to read them quite the same) and I've never quite got back to where I was. Also, it doesn't seem consistent and will do odd things from time to time, like suddenly refuse to idle, smell like it's burning coal. Maybe something else entirely......

 

Does have some extra features but only worth changing if you are going to use them.

 

You can find the firmware and uploader files here

http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=43433

 

I see it's gone to 3.2.4 now.....

 

Nick

[James]

 

Does have some extra features but only worth changing if you are going to use them.

 

 

There are also "hidden" features of much of the background code— stuff you don't actually "use" but add to everything overall— of course if you're having issues that's another matter.

 

Stuff like the acceleration enrichment stuff is an improvement overall.

[toofast2race]

Is there a step by step procedure anywhere?

 

I found this - http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/upgrade.html#download - is there anything that you would add James?

 

I assume it has to be done whilst hooked up to MS2 - no dismantling of the ECU

 

I would be happy with few more RPM and MAP points for VE as my car has such a wide power band - seems like 2000 to 7000+ at the moment so with enough low end idle points it starts to get a bit wide spaced in places with 12x12. Reckon to get the top end power safe and optimised 16 x 16 is the go.

 

I would be nice to get my IAC valve working correctly and used for closed loop idle control. Its never been perfect - to make it work I need values way outside what Megasquirt reccomend - off the chart to get it to close - might be a hardware issue too.

[James]

That procedure seems pretty good— just remember to set your TPS and temp sensors again as those don't get transferred.

 

Also it's probably worth building your config from scratch — save out your tables and import them in.

 

Be sure to set up another project inside TunerStudio so you can flip back to it to check out the settings you had before.

[Nick Jones]

Also need to recalibrate your wideband (done within the tools section of TS) after the change as this doesn't carry across either.

 

Remind me what sort of IAC you have? Needs to be something that responds to PWM control I think? Idle control is something else I have issues with on the PI. Why this should be trickier that the Vitesse with same cam but bigger displacement, heavier flywheel etc I have no idea unless it's the smaller runners on the Vitesse manifold keeping velocity up a bit........

 

Nick

[toofast2race]

I have a Jeep IAC with the Diy Auto tune body. Basically a stepper motor - it was a prick to get working and it still isn't completely reliable - I had to put in random numbers to get the valve to shut at all - well out of range of what Megasquirt says

 

http://www.diyautotu...valve-p-69.html

 

Bought the Idle valve secondhand and not convinced it isn't a bit buggered. Not sure that when you take them out of the housing they are meant to fall apart.

 

I got the idle much better by retarding the ignition about 10 degs and opening up the idle screw - only draw back is you need to play with the map where the revs are dropping (retard it) with no load or the idle can stay high.

Edited September 20, 2012 by toofast2race

[Triumph-V8]

1.) First change from B&G to MS-extra opening ECU and jumpering is a must.

As I told you a software to do that automatically in future is needed on the ECU

before update next time can be done completely from outside.

 

2.) I would expect to see in the picture the cold start data.

On my GM stepper the higher the number the more open the air passage is.

 

So the curve in my opinion should start in the left upper

and go down close to zero somewhere on the right.

 

The maximum amount of steps should not be higher

than the stepper can really go otherwise it will get mad!

 

The MS gets no response from the stepper

so if you open 400 steps and have only 160 availiable on the IAC

and than next time you close 200 than the system is not half opened

but fully closed because you go 200 back from the 160 max opening!!

So right numbers are essential especially if you want to go for closed loop

where the system opens and closes all the time the engine runs.

 

Opposite to cold start where the stepper closes once when warm and thats it

the stepper works all the time with no feedback and MS must rely on proper stepping.

 

Before cold start next time the stepper is driven to full closed to recalibrate and than started again

what means wrong numbers are there not that critical.

 

I would recommend to play with MS2 and Stim

add the IAC and connect a fuel hose to one side of IAC

you can use it as a flute (if nobody else is in the room, maybe he would think you are crazy)

 

Than you can play with the stim, changing temperature and rpm

and if on closed loop play around idle

always blowing into the hose to know what the stepper really makes

and not only what the MS2 displays what should happen

and than check if the system works reliable especially when you go to the limits

of full open or full closed and than back to medium ranges.