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Tricky. I bought a tiny pair of quality 'Vice Grip' pliers (brand name) that really bite and don't twist off. I have use these end on to clamp to the end snapped bolts, screws, then grip these at the jaws with another pair to unscrew. Possibly heat thd spoke first. Problem is Alluminium/steel corroded together can be like a weld.

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12 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

Prepared to put a bit of effort in to save it.  I will tidy it up too.  It's shamefully dirty.....  Quite like the core drill idea, though it doesn't immediately solve the problem as I can only go as far as the spoke.  But maybe I can also drill out a bolt to fit over the screw with some decent glue once the core drill has done it's work.  The screw can't be that tight, it's just that there is nothing to get a hold of. As the current screw is only about 3mm OD, if I'm cunning about the core drill I may be able to keep the hole small enough to just go up a screw size....... wishful thinking maybe.....

I've been variously told that it's a Les Leston aftermarket and that it was a (high priced) dealer option.  Possibly it came from a 948 coupe.  Not quite convinced on the Les Leston as the boss design seems very different.  Never seen another like it though - not even in a picture.

Nick

my thought was that if you open up the wood just enough to get round the screw with either a wee mole grip or a threaded sleeve and lock bolt.

IMG_20200706_0002.thumb.jpg.1bcc50b59185dfa7771aa9c74cb6441f.jpg

With a core cutter the inside of the hole in the wood will be a bit rough and not good enough to make a structural glued repair so once the bolt is out you can remove the spoke and clean up the hole with a high speed cutter bit (router bit in a drill would do). Bigger than the hole you have core drilled but smaller than the extent of the slot for the spoke.

Turn up a plug of wood to fit the hole snugly and glue in with the polyurethane glue - like the Pacman below. Then carve/sand the protruding bit to suit.

IMG_20200706_0001.thumb.jpg.35f187af15a8d17e32fb99a05d3e5665.jpg

If the screw is very seized in the spoke you can soak overnight with a few drops of phosphoric acid or even Coke at push (other carbonated vegetable flavour drinks are available) which will loosen things off.

Given what has happened with this screw I would be tempted to take all the screws out to check/replace as necessary.

Colin

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Thanks for all your thoughts and suggestions.  Gives hope!

Drove the car to work today using a Mountney 14".  Strange.  Completely changes the feel of the car.  Not all bad either...…..  Slightly smaller diameter, much thicker rim, feels much more robust.  Not a nice looking thing though.

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On ‎7‎/‎6‎/‎2020 at 11:54 AM, Escadrille Ecosse said:

Given what has happened with this screw I would be tempted to take all the screws out to check/replace as necessary.

Already done.  One is perfect.  The other is quite corroded.  The corroded ones are the side ones, bottom one is good.  Presumably sweaty paws is the cause..... :blink:

  • Haha 1

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1 hour ago, Nick Jones said:

Already done.  One is perfect.  The other is quite corroded.  The corroded ones are the side ones, bottom one is good.  Presumably sweaty paws is the cause..... :blink:

Hello Nick

                 What you need is some nice string back gloves He He

Roger

ps or less salt in your diet!

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5 minutes ago, rogerguzzi said:

ps or less salt in your diet!

don't you start..... :blink:

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2 hours ago, rogerguzzi said:

ps or less salt in your diet!

Nah.

I don't take any salt in my diet (as in added salt), and I can testify that my sweat still destroys metals! Actually, one of the main reasons I only buy plastic safety glasses these days!

I do like the steering wheel though, it is something similar to what I have been looking for to put on the saloon after the restoration. Now I have a name to aid the searches.

Phil

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Ohh, and with the screw, I am in the drilling camp.

Initially go for a small drill size (as in 1mm kind of size), hopefully just drilling down is enough. I find that this loosens the hold on "not so stubborn" threads and pair of grips (or if you have something, a very fine chisel/screwdriver or even a torx driver tapped into the drilled hole).

If that doesn't go, drill out to almost thread size, then use a tap to chase the remnants out the threads (might need to sacrifice a tap here, if the piece is shallow!!).

All requires a steady hand or pillar drill, and PROPER quality drill bits, but this is how I have removed various screws onboard (fortunately most of mine are usually grub screws with an Allen key head which makes drilling easier, but I have done this on standard machine screws as well).

That's my two-pennarth worth anyway,

Phol

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Just for amusement...… I found a nice wheel on the Nardi website.  They don't do anything so vulgar as prices listed so I have to wait for their (unnamed) local agent to quote me.  I'll make sure I'm sitting comfortably (or even fully horizontal) before opening that one.

Don't think drilling will work.  The screw is a rolled self-tapper and flippin' hard.  And the core diameter is ~ 2.5mm.  Roger's small end mill suggestion just might do it (though I'd probably have to buy one) but I'd much prefer not to go that way as the screw goes right through the aluminium spoke and on another 8mm or so into the wood the other side.

Toying with the idea of breaking out the jump leads and passing a (high) current through the joint to see if that will break the hold that the corrosion seems to have...…  Potentially a bit violent/uncontrolled :blink:

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Hello Nick

                  How about a lefthanded drill and it may bring the screw out with it!

Roger

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Yep, thought about that...... so I need a TCT LH drill bit around 2mm........  Probably not going to find that at Screwfix......:sad:

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Hello Nick

                  How about spark erosion ? or is this getting a bit silly?

Is it a priceless artefact? 

Roger

ps is it easy to fit a swing spring to a Vitesse and which spring? not sure I want the anti camber thing as I do not drive that hard (at my age! the old saying is the older I get the better I was!)and Spitty seems ok under normal fast ish driving!

But do you need to fit the longer drive shafts?

Plus I could sell the anti camber thing for the price of a spring!

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Just caught up on quite a lot of work!

First off, big congrats to Chris on the dissertation. 85 is a stonking mark for university work (I don't know why they sandbag so much with the top marks, but they do). For reference, I got 79 in mine and that got published in a journal! Very, very well done. Look forward to reading it :)

Back on page 5 or so you mentioned having to turn the dampers up after fitting the trunnionless uprights and I think I know why. When I've been calculating spring rates and the like for mine, I've found that the trunnionless uprights move the lower pivot point out about 35mm. That changes the motion ratio quite significantly, from 0.56 to 0.44. To put that into perspective, to get the same wheel rate as 330lb springs on the trunnions you need 425lb ones for trunnionless! Same effect on damping. That could also affect your feeling of the rear being stiffer, as comparatively it would be. Small chassis Triumphs seem to major on front spring stiffness, so lowering that would make it more balanced (at the expense of more dive under braking).

While sorting out the Jag's paint around the brake master cylinder area I've discovered that, for all its sins, POR-15 seems to be impervious to brake fluid so I've painted it in that. Will report back once there's been enough of a long term test. Curious to see if your floor paint works too...

Lastly, I've always hated drilling out stuck bolts from softer materials. I think I'm in the try and find a good 2mm reverse drill camp. Not necessarily because I think it will work, but because you can try that first and then if it doesn't work you can hole saw around the outside. I think the latter is more likely to be successful, but hard to go back afterwards.

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Interesting what you say about the trunnionless links and pivot points.... but....

......while I have no trouble believing the lower pivot point has moved (played merry hell with my hard-won suspension settings :mad:)....... 35mm??!!:blink: Can it really be that much? how do you figure it out? From the changes I had to make to the camber and toe settings I would guess in the region of 5mm.  

Appreciate that the trunnionless system makes the suspension pivot and lower steering pivot the same, whereas the OE arrangement has them separate and separated, which may account for the discrepancy in our numbers?  However, It didn’t noticeably change the ride height which it should have done if your numbers are right?

The damping change I put down to the trunnion-less joint having less friction.

The rear end thing.... I did the trunnionless conversion a while ago and have done several thousand miles with it before the structural mods. The ride change only occurred after the structural work.

More needed to convince me :smile:

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Very interesting. I remember reading about estimating motion ratios and there's two main methods for double-wishbone suspension that use measuring of linkage lengths. Both of which are approximations as the actual maths is bloody complicated (and variable down to things like camber angle at the specific moment in time you're calculating at).

1. Take the whole suspension to be the lever, meaning that the outside pivot point is the centreline of the wheel.

2. Take the lower arm to be lever, meaning that the outside pivot is the joint with the suspension upright/vertical link.

The former is the more accurate approximation when the wheels are pointing dead ahead, and the latter is the more accurate approximation when the wheels are completely turned. The folks over at Physics Stack Exchange provided a helpful layman's explanation to this when I couldn't find a good explanation from automotive articles (too much shallow-depth rules of thumb with bugger all explanation). Here's the question: https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/555191/where-is-leverage-calculated-from-in-jointed-system-car-wishbone-spring-rate-vs

Will re-run the maths with it using the first approximation where the longer lower arm length won't change a thing, then find out what number's in the middle (or maybe 3/4 of the way between as the steering angle is never particularly great in high-g corners.

Oh, and the 35mm difference is from the pivot point on the wishbone where the stock trunnion pivots up and down and the ball of the trunnionless upright. The red bit in this picture.

qf64aq2h3f8cx319ohfj.jpg

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BiTurbo,

I don't doubt the difficulty of the calculation!

But I have been vastly impressed by what CAD can do.    Drawing the parts isn't simple, but it's straighforward, and then you can 'Assemble' them virtually,  and move them about!   That always freaks me, as they say!    I'm pretty sure that you could fix the turret in virtual space and then see the suspension move as the gods intended.    And measure the angles!

Not done it so can't swear on it.   I have made cardboard models and manipulated them to find what happens, that works.

JOhn

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