Escadrille Ecosse Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 2 hours ago, JohnD said: Despite Nick's survival, unhurt from a Herald roll-over, I don't believe that the saloon roof has much strength, and the windscreen surround alone almost none at all. Forget my race obsession - when my son's first car was a Spitfire, he could not drive it, even on the road, until we fitted a roll-over bar. He never 'used' the bar, but I was vastly reassured. JOhn Would agree John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted May 20, 2021 Author Share Posted May 20, 2021 5 hours ago, JohnD said: I don't believe that the saloon roof has much strength Indeed. No argument. As I said, it was a “gentle” roll. My first, and so far last, attempt at speed hill climbing at Cricket St Thomas in about 1989. ("To the manor born" era, before that tosser Edmonds ruined it into "Blobby land") Got out of shape under heavy and rather too late braking for the first, notorious corner (car was much faster than expected!) and clipped a bank on the inside still going too quick.... worked like a stuntman’s ramp. Rolled to the left and barely touched the left side - slight scuffs on door handle and fuel cap only. Slid about 50 yards on the roof...... virtually no impact and I was left hanging upside down in my harness wondering what the road was going by above me..... Wore a small hole in one of the roof fins and scuffed the headlamp cowls rather badly. Then the marshal’s buggered the right side turning it back over. Paint was a week old.... Scrutineer gave permission to run again if I gaffer taped the screen in but the Rh driveshaft was badly bent in the righting process, giving a very strange lolloping gait..... My ego and enthusiasm took a pretty big hit too. Bit of porta-power action and a replacement roof had it back in service within a couple of days (my only legal car at the time!) but panel fit, previously excellent by Herald standards, was never quite the same again. There was photographer there who caught the whole thing - whole sequence of pics from really close (nearly got him!) and he sent me a contact strip. I now wish I had bought the pics, but was a lot of money that I didn’t have at the time and frankly I didn’t need the reminder! Haven’t seen the contact strip for years.... One further historical note is that the helmet I wore saw action just twice. That day, which it survived and one day 4 or 5 years later at Wiscombe lent to a mate who rolled his Westfield at the sawbench hairpin, also by clipping a bank.... that incident wore a hole in the top of the helmet Better the stuffing hanging out of your helmet that the brains leaking from your head though. Clearly it was cursed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escadrille Ecosse Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 39 minutes ago, Nick Jones said: One further historical note is that the helmet I wore saw action just twice. That day, which it survived and one day 4 or 5 years later at Wiscombe lent to a mate who rolled his Westfield at the sawbench hairpin, also by clipping a bank.... that incident wore a hole in the top of the helmet Better the stuffing hanging out of your helmet that the brains leaking from your head though. Clearly it was cursed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted April 17, 2022 Author Share Posted April 17, 2022 With a track day booked for Castle Coombe, I’m considering ways to try and hold the oil temperatures down a bit. It’ll get the wrong side of 130C in a 15 minute session. I’m unenthusiastic about a full blown oil cooler. It mostly doesn’t really need one, there are few good locations for a cooler on a Vitesse and I don’t much like external oil pipes….. So I thought I’d try deflecting a bit of airflow around the sump bowl as it hides behind the chassis cross member….. sump tucked up behind cross member and largely sheltered from slipstream. Note 6-3-1 down pipes and collector, sticking down and in the way. One of the pipes actually leans on the sump - which won’t be helping. Had to beat a big clearance bowl into the deflector plate. Came out ok in the end, though might have been quicker to create a wooden former rather than just beating it on the shot bag. This is looking from the back. From the front. Stiffened the front edge with a bit of 5mm bar as the sheet is only0.9mm and a bit floppy. The manifold side just hooks onto the lip inside the chassis rail Like so. Fixing method on the other side not yet completed, but no holes in the chassis needed. Should be easy to remove and position-adjustable. Not sure I’ve got enough scoop but very aware that as well as air it has the potential to scoop puddles, rabbits, speed “pillows” and the like…. You can tell me why it won’t work now….. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escadrille Ecosse Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 Looks very made at the makers. Interesting to see how that goes. The underside of the small Triumphs always get quite hot even when not being caned. I suppose the potential issues are sufficient airflow under the car up tight againt the underside to get caught by the scoop and enough inducement after to get air away again. Won't do the egarbox any harm either I wouldn't think to have a bit more cooling air Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted April 17, 2022 Author Share Posted April 17, 2022 51 minutes ago, Escadrille Ecosse said: Looks very made at the makers. Thank you. Not quite so much in person. Bits of it looks like it’s suffered many, many, many hammer blows (because it has ). I’m happy with the overall shape and it even misses the exhaust, though tbh I’m not entirely sure by how much….. 51 minutes ago, Escadrille Ecosse said: Won't do the egarbox any harm either I wouldn't think to have a bit more cooling air Difficult to extend it backwards as the exhaust is really tight in there and in the way. Also not wanting to increase under-bonnet pressure as water cooling at speed is already marginal, I think because the air can’t get out quick enough. Bonnet vents (top rear of the wings) are on the list for when I finally get around to sorting the (or a) bonnet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahebron Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 Very nice. Then a crazy idea of mine that I have had for many years you drill the sump at the front and rear then weld tubes so the air will blow through the sump cooling the oil. A bit like a steam boiler tubes but reversing the idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 Nicely done. I‘m curious about the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted April 18, 2022 Author Share Posted April 18, 2022 2 hours ago, Martin said: I‘m curious about the result. You and me both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gt6s Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 11 hours ago, ahebron said: Very nice. Then a crazy idea of mine that I have had for many years you drill the sump at the front and rear then weld tubes so the air will blow through the sump cooling the oil. A bit like a steam boiler tubes but reversing the idea I have mates did that 25 years ago BTW Chassis crossmember needs tubed too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahebron Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 31 minutes ago, Gt6s said: I have mates did that 25 years ago BTW Chassis crossmember needs tubed too. Did it work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escadrille Ecosse Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 1 hour ago, ahebron said: Did it work? The £64,000 question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted April 18, 2022 Author Share Posted April 18, 2022 Tubing the cross member is an engine out job….. that’s not happening any time soon…. I hope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escadrille Ecosse Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 With the sump out to fit the cooling tubes and the front of the engine lifter enough to get the sump out over the rack you should have enough room to punch out the holes and weld in the tubes in the crossmember. Easy peasy Just joking Nick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted April 19, 2022 Author Share Posted April 19, 2022 Catches added. top one in the engaged position, bottom one in release position. The outer bolts run in slots to allow sliding the inner ones are simple holes so you know you’re in place. Paint added too, though I don’t reckon it’ll be there very long on the exhaust bulge. Minutes maybe….. In place. I don’t think it’ll drop off. Scraped off….. I wonder if it will have any detectable effect….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escadrille Ecosse Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 Very shiny. We await the test results with interest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted April 21, 2022 Author Share Posted April 21, 2022 Well, it’s stayed on up to 70mph. No new noises or vibration so I guess it misses the exhaust. Not sure it has much effect on the oil temperature though….. testing will continue. In othe news I’ve been fiddling with software to try to get the dash AFR gauge and Tuner studio/MS to agree and even connected direct to the Innovate LC1 direct to see if either agree with that. They didn’t initially, but they do now. That explains some oddities. Also been fiddling with the IAT correction curve as the AFR drift was irritatingly large. It’s improving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escadrille Ecosse Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Nick Jones said: Well, it’s stayed on up to 70mph. No new noises or vibration so I guess it misses the exhaust. That is progress and at least demonstrates your facility with a hammer Edited April 21, 2022 by Escadrille Ecosse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted April 21, 2022 Author Share Posted April 21, 2022 38 minutes ago, Escadrille Ecosse said: at least demonstrates your facility with a hammer I am quite pleased with how the forming went. Useful things hammers….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted April 23, 2022 Author Share Posted April 23, 2022 I had some exhaust wrap lying around, so I thought I’d remind myself how much I love wrapping exhaust manifolds…… in situ. It was just as much fun as I remembered. I only did the lower part by the sump as the goals are quite specific. (Apologies for the image angle. It’s a iPhone thing. Thanks Apple.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escadrille Ecosse Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 2 hours ago, Nick Jones said: It was just as much fun as I remembered. I only did the lower part by the sump as the goals are quite specific. It is a thoroughly crap job to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 I've posted before about the weird flaking corrosion I found under exhaust wrap, on a tubular manifold. Idont b elive that it can be any good to suffer that, or do any good either! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted April 23, 2022 Author Share Posted April 23, 2022 This is a stainless manifold John, but maybe yours was too? It's an experiment - I'm trying to determine how much heat transfer there is from manifold to sump..... if it doesn't help it'll come off again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimBancroft Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 Nick, As you say, a thoroughly (un)pleasant way to spend sometime installing. My experience of the stuff is that it comes off without any human help....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 (edited) Ah! Stainless! Mine was mild steel. There were large (2") flakes of corrosion on the primaries that I had wrapped, coloured blue/green. I assume that the porous glass fibre wrap had allowed water to be in contact with the steel, but a limited amount of oxygen, so that an anaerobic "Shikorr" reaction occurred, producing magnetite. Alarmingly, this reaction uses the oxygen in water and thereby releases Hydrogen! Even more alarmingly, Nick, this raises the possibility of "hydrogen embrittlement" of stainless steels, in particular high temperature hydrogen attack. That involves the carbon in steel combining with diffused hydrogen to form methane, too large to diffuse away, forming high pressure microbubbles that weaken the metal. Exhausts are usually made from "ferritic" steel made stainless by including 10.5% to 30% chromium, but also up to 20% carbon. Other methods of thermal insulation, such as ceramic coating won't keep water in the covering and are too thin to keep out oxygen, but cost a lot more! Anyway, I've made my case before that such coatings are futile, except to obtain the last fraction of a percent of performance, a la F1. My favourite evidence is that ceramic tiles were on the Space Shuttle to protect its aluminium construction by producing a similar temperature drop from outside to in, as that in an exhaust but inside to out! And the Shuttle needed SIX INCHES of ceramic, not the fraction of an inch of exhaust coating! John PS Nick, people usually wrap the exhaust in the pious belief that this will maintina the heat in the exhaust and thereby speed it's exit. If your concern is heat into the sump, I'd suggest a heat shield, like that you might use to protect the carbs on a non-crossflow engine. This presents a larger area for heat loss than the exhaust so that the hot surface next to the sump will be much cooler. J. Edited April 24, 2022 by JohnD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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