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Equalising Oil Pressure in the Triumph 6 cylinder


lordleonusa

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I have a concern about the oil pressure in my 6 cylinder Triumph engine (Vit Mk.2: HC).

 

Kas addressed this issue to some extent in his tuning manuals as has Steve Smith, (that nicebloke from Las Vegas) with the octopus system.

 

My car is a road car, and as ever funds are limited.

 

Tony Dean put an article in the TSSC Courier magazine some time back (2005) where he addressed this issue in his own way.

 

(Yes, GT, I know you don't care for either Kas or TLD, but this is not about them)

 

Here is a copy of that article, I would like to fit something similar to my Vitesse with the angled oil filter adaptor with take-offs for the oil cooler already fitted.

 

I don't want to buy anything from TLD, because I just do not want to deal with him again.

 

I will soon have the tools to make up my own Goodridge hoses, but what I want to know (Dave S, Steve Smith?) is exactly what adaptors to need at the ends of the hose to (A) fit the engine block at the front of the oil gallery, and (B) where the oil hose is tapped into the angled oil filter adaptor?

 

Also, © how do I drill the angled oil filter adaptor without ruining it?

 

Hope my questions make sense.

 

Léon F Guyot

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

  

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final page, 4 of 4

 

This is the closest to what I want to end up with, except my oil filter cannot point straight down due to the chassis being there.

 

I will also not bother with the take off to the rocker mechanism, but would consider a take off to number 2 oil gallery grub screw if required.

 

Looking forward to insight and answers from the gurus

 

L

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Leon,

 

While I'm prepared to believe that this may be worth doing on race engine seeing sustained high rpm, I suspect it is well into the realms of overkill for a road engine.  Reading the TLD article two things jump out as likely to cause crank wear - holding a 2500 engine at 6000rpm ( :o)

and extracting 220 bhp (yeah right  ::)) from it.

 

Don't see anything wrong with the technique he is suggesting, just that you don't really need to do it.  Article looks like product advertising to me.

 

Cheers

 

Nick

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he's just copied the basics of the octopuss system and taken out the other three lines, i would be worried about too much oil around one specific area.

 

im looking at doing the full system but that is due to the fact the octopuss has been proven to help combat the throwing mains on a 1500.

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I haven't read the article but all of the fittings to the block are 1/8-NPT to Dash4 with Dash4 sized lines.  I recall Kas saying he used Dash 3 because that's what he had but it seemed small to my eye.

 

 

TLD's later pics, with the dual takeoffs,  coming off of the filtered side of the adapter  Page 4?  I haven't had one of those for a long time but I recall the metal being thin there.  Drill and tap carefully if so.  It'll be sturdy enough once assembled.

 

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He's done the pipes in 4AN braided, or -4.

 

The block holes are 5/16th. You need a few "5/16th to -4 male" adaptors to go in in the block, a few copper washers...You could just drill your oil take off block leon? I reckon anyway...Two 4mm bore holes into the after filter side of take off plate...do them at angles and cut a NPT taper thread in the outside face, screw in some adaptors and off you go. Doubt it's anything complex, after all TLD dreamt it up.

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Thanks 4 all your replies Guys.

 

I am a belt n' braces kind of guy.

 

If I still lived in the UK, or anywhere within half a shout of a decent machine shop, and still had the disposable income and/or access to as many spare Triumph parts as I did back before 2002, then I probably wouldn't bother.

 

Heck, I use quality oils/filters, I have a rev limiter set to 6500 rpm, (on my MSD digital 6 plus), my compression ratio is only about 9.5 to 1, but my engine does have glacier bearings, as the first set of VP's got trashed due to a misground crankshaft when we first tried to turn the engine.

 

But if there is ANY possibility that it is true that oil does not get past the distributor drive gear and pressure does drop off as suggested, then I want those darn braces!

 

L  

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I have the line from the filter adaptor to the front gallery plug. The line I bought off Ebay (it was a ready made mini turbo oil line). The adaptors were bought from Think Automotive. When competing my car endures short excursions of very high revs so I thought it wouldn't do any harm. I did have the rocker assembly line as well as recommended by TLD when I bought his roller rockers, but I have dispensed with it now and sold the rockers on (replaced by Harland Sharp).

 

I had no issues drilling and tapping the filter housing, there was plenty of meat there. It's ally so make sure the taps are very sharp (pref new)  and the drill exactly the right size. It took a standard T adaptor available anywhere.

 

i'll try and get a photo.

 

 

I also  moved the oil pressure sensor to the second gallery plug so that it is measuring oil pressure at the "worst case" point. I don't have oil pressure issues.

 

Easy job. Hardest bit is getting the gallery plugs out, but I did that when I rebuild the motor.

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Thanks George, that's helpful.

 

I have been looking for adaptors, but have not yet seen any 5/16th" to -4 adaptors in the Pegasus catalogue, which is strange as they have most others.

 

I may need to get them from Think Automotive also.

 

A photo may well be helpful to me, TIA.

 

Typically, I have a mandrel on order from Pegasus for -3 hoses, and now it seems I will need one for the -4 hoses!

 

The hose is easy for me to get.

 

I am hopeful that it won't be impossible to remove the grub screw on the oil gallery, as it was removed back in 1997 when the engine was being cleaned in an acid bath, prior to it's second rebuild.

 

L

 

 

 

 

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Hey Dave,

I wonder if we're talking at cross purposes here?  I only know the US spec six blocks as in the TR6 and GT6.  I only assumed the Vitesse would be the same.  It's been so many years since I had my Spit motor I can't recall how it was set up.

 

I've never seen a US six block with bolts and copper washers anywhere but the rear of the head.  A 3/8-24 will only just turn into the six block galley holes.  The Allen head, recessed hex, plugs are tapered.

 

I've been using 1/8NPT in all of my blocks for years.  If Leon is so fortunate as to remove one I can easily mail him one of my many leftover adapters to test.

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Hey Dave,

I wonder if we're talking at cross purposes here?  I only know the US spec six blocks as in the TR6 and GT6.  I only assumed the Vitesse would be the same.  It's been so many years since I had my Spit motor I can't recall how it was set up.

 

I've never seen a US six block with bolts and copper washers anywhere but the rear of the head.  A 3/8-24 will only just turn into the six block galley holes.  The Allen head, recessed hex, plugs are tapered.

 

I've been using 1/8NPT in all of my blocks for years.  If Leon is so fortunate as to remove one I can easily mail him one of my many leftover adapters to test.

 

>>>

I will see if I can manage to remove one to find out what it is exactly?

 

I have a thread gauge and digital calipers so I can get fairly accurate measurements once it is out.

 

AFAIK, the Vitesse Mk.2 and GT6+ blocks are identical.

 

Thanks for the offer Steve, I will most likely have to take you up on it.

 

Amazing that there are STILL unanswered questions popping up about these venerable old engines after all these years!

 

Again, thanks

 

L

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks so much George, I can wait.

 

I have ordered a -3 mandrel, but will also have to get a -4 mandrel to make up this particular hose.

 

I am determined to get the right tools and get into making up this stuff myself instead of constantly relying on others to do it for me.

 

L

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Well, the hose I used was meant to be a oil feed for a turbo - got it on ebay for less than the price of making one up.

 

Bit busy this week, negotiating the terms of my redundancy etc. I am REALLY not looking forward to doing the round of job interviews. Really would like to work for myself until retirement, but I don't know how viable that is yet.

 

How's that for going off topic!!!!

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So, does this mean to say that what I am after is adaptors that go from 1/8th inch NPT to -4 (dash 4) with a -4 armoured/braided Goodridge type hose inbetween, and that the 5/16th inch was an error?

 

C'mon Guys, I KNOW we are smarter than Looney Done!

 

L

 

 

Yes

 

 

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But the question from me is always WHY!!!!

 

I have run those engines continuously for hours on end at 5500rpm.

I have NEVER had a problem.

With Looney's crappy engineering it's ultra likely he never ground the crank ever to spec.

 

TBQH the MAJOR problem with those engines is NEVER the bottom end, never mind about the bullshit 220bhp claim. (It's always the head seats getting knacked).

 

Funny that, the independent superflow valve test guy said you could NEVER exceed 215bhp on the world's ideal engine with the best TR6 flow figures,no matter what you did,- never mind a crap 2.5L, built by morons.

I trust him.

He makes Ducati works engines, - the best ones in the world.

 

In any case....why would anyone ever want to bodge an oil way?

 

If you wanna do it right, DO IT RIGHT!! Not go on about how fantastic your crap engines are 20 years after and write 4 pages in the TSSC about it.... :o

 

On the big overbored/overstroked V12 Jag engine (sorry to mention Coventry again!!), they found the crankshaft physically wouldn't pass the internal oil gallery, cast in the block.. THAT'S BIG!!!

The original stroke is 70mm, they bore them out 6-8mm & take them about 20mm longer,  !!  ;D

 

Have you seen a V12 oil way????? It's about the size of a washing machine hose!!!  :o

 

So they blocked it up and put a pipe down the outside of the block and plumbed it in from the outside with a dry sump pump...

 

So if you're gonna do it properly, then drill EVERYTHING out and dry sump it....then we can argue about whether things were done right....

 

I would ignore all that, I've never had a problem especially if you use Motul 300V, and let's say I don't think I ever heard of any of another of those engines doing 9000rpm and not blowing up  :D

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Also, the front main and big-end are the last to recieve oil pressure at startup.

 

We all know the 6 is inclined to drain it's filter.

 

When I got my engine, as it was given to me, in a car, the no4 main and big-end were more worn than the others.

 

This was obvious why when the owner of the car started it up when I viewed it. He whipped out the choke and started it on the key, rev's to 1500rpm on the choke and waiting for oil pressure for a few moments.

 

Spitfire, no4 is the last thing to get oil.

 

So I ALWAYS resorted to cranking up 60psi of pressure on the key, then starting the engine.

 

I never suffered any uneven bearing wear again, the rear big-end was brassed after only 11000 with the previous owner and I put ALL that down to his starting technique? As with new shells it was fine after.

 

One joy of webers they will never start from cold without a few prods on the pedal.

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