Mark Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Hi all I am getting the Vitesse back together slowly and thinking of putting the Stromberg carbs and manifold back on just to get the car back on the road next year, but i do intend to EFI the car and was wondering wether to do it now at this stage. I have a couple of sets of early PI throttle bodies and want to use the individual throttles as apposed to going for a single throttle on a plenum. I know there is lots of DIY info but was wondering if there are any firms or individuals who will supply the fuel rail pre drilled and someone who is able to drill out the bodies for the electronic injectors. I would also like to have roller bearings fitted in the bodies. Thanks Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS211083 Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I would say better to go EFI now as I'm sure you will have to spend cash on the carbs and dizzyetc. to get it running correctly. What state of tune is the engine?? I wouldn't go PI throttles but instead speak to Nick about a manifold with single throttle body. Pi throttles are too large for most setups and smaller throttles will give a more driveable car. Nicks style EFI is idea for 90% of applications and everyday cars and will perform much better then the carbs any day of the week and I'm sure he can make a kit for the correct price which will be much less than the Pi throttles which need the bearings and special linkages not to mention drilling for the injectors. Speak to Nick, thats where my money would be if my car didn't do Hill climbs. Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph-V8 Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I have the six butterflies and my own linkage and the ROSS fuel rail in use and would not build up anything else than that, although with the 123HP cam it is not necessary. Anyway it does no harm and removing the butterflies and set a big one at the end of the plenum does not make the things better. In this case it seems to be more or less resignation at the problems. The manifolds with the size and opening for injectors are in both cases the same. The drilling of the fuel rail and the manifold refurbish is only a small part of the build up. You should be aware that there will be lot of other things to build as ther eis the pump in the trunk or the two fuel lines to/from the engine, Also the setup of the injection is something that should be done with knowledge and time. The result is worth that effort and is fun to do when understood how to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpeedy Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 There is a 3rd way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Hmm, toying with the idea of something similar, possibly using BMW K75 / K100 Throttle bodies (don't have injectors in them but are compact). Not sure how you miss the bulkhead as my plenum is damn close even though the runners are offset forwards......... Think my engine must be further back than yours. Single throttle body works really well with a mildish cam, The 300º cam is giving some driveability issues, which would be minor but for the fact that they manifest when trickling along in traffic queues...... Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph-V8 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 It looks great and the main advantage I see from my refurbishment of my PI systems is that you have here nice modern throttle bodies that will sync properly and keep that sync for a longer period. Anyway with six butterflies on a 2.7 litre the 300 degree Bastuck cam still is a nice idling item than can be used in daily traffic. Nice inlet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 There is a 3rd way Yes looks like a really good set up. I may have restricted my options now I have moved my engine right back unless I modify the bulk head. The Triumph Pi bodies fit as is so I may still pursue that route. I ran my last Vitesse on tweeked HS4 su's and it went really well so may revert to that to get it running whilst I work on the triumph throttle bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh18 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Is that two sets of triumph triple bike throttles? Looks like they fit really well. Custom manifolds too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpeedy Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Is that two sets of triumph triple bike throttles? Looks like they fit really well. Custom manifolds too? Yes, two sets of 3 from a Triumph Speed Triple 675. I made the manifolds from Aluminium for the inlet runners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Triumph Speed Triple 675 means 675cc. Two will do for 1350cc What needed to be done so they could fuel 2000cc? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egret Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 My thoughts on applying bike bits to cars is that you should go on bhp rather than capacity. This assumes that bhp and gas flow are very closely linked. It may only be 675cc, but it will be reving at around 13,000 rpm and producing a lot of power. A quick google tells me a 675 is 90bhp, so 2 should in theory be able to fuel for 180bhp without any issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph-V8 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 That is exactely how i approach to the problem. In practice the throttle plates are often a bit on the large side. That may have its reasons in the choice which way to go: Stock engines with less power use cams with small overlap. They respond properly on one single throttle plate for all cylinders. They keep proper sync and are cheap. The swap to individual butterflies already means we are on the way on serious tuning and from that all manifolds are designed really big. Smaller manifolds do not cut that much from top power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpeedy Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I applied the same logic (?) to sizing these as you would to bike carbs. ie, approximately doubling the capacity they'll handle on a car engine as opposed to a bike engine, as they're doing less than half the revs, so less than half the air volume. So for a 2ltr car engine you'd select bike carbs off a 900-1000cc. For a 1.6ltr you'd go 650-750cc etc etc. I also did a little investigation on a couple of bike forums, which led to the general consensus that standard 675 throttle bodies and injectors are good for approx 140-150 bhp on the Triumph Speed Triple. As I was 'only' aiming for 150 bhp on my Vitesse engine, I figured they'd be well within parameters. Turns out, I was correct! The standard injectors are more than up to the job. In fact, if anything, it's over fuelling, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 The bhp comparison is a pretty safe assumption and works for injectors too. Injector flows can be tweaked (+/- 10% at least) by altering the fuel pressures. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh18 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 They look like a really nice way to go. I'll keep them in the memory bank! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted August 4, 2016 Author Share Posted August 4, 2016 Hi all Working away on the Vitesse and have gone for Sprint carbs for now but as i am just refubishing the fuel tank i want to fit a fuel return ready for when i go EFI. I was going to weld in a pipe close to the top rear of the tank in the area of the reserve lever. Is this a good place? It just occurred to me is it going to sound like a toilet re-filling after the chain is pulled as the fuel tank won't be full all the time. If I position the return lower will there be enough fuel pressure to empty back into the tank? Any pics advice appreciated. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph-V8 Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Position of return pipe is not critical. Proper tank venting should be focussed instead. I see the advantage of the higher positioned return line entrance that nothing drops out when the hose is pulled off. The noise will not be heard when engine is running. Same with the fuel pump(s) that make some noise when running without engine running. We are no longer used to that noise on EFI and modern cars because the pumps just start before the engine and shut off immedeately if crank is not turning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtuckunder Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 If you can drop a pipe inside from the return that goes nearly to the bottom of the tank, apart from avoiding the loo filling sound the advantage is that it avoids a shower inside the tank aerating the fuel. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 There is a 3rd way Hi all Bit of a thread revival Hi Mr Speedy, do the throttle bodies you use have an idle speed assembly, I've seen some with and some without, just trying to understand how the idle is controlled by the ECU on tick over and cold days etc. thanks Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS211083 Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Mark, most ECU's controlling Throttle bodies control idle with ignition advance. You set the throttle air screws to all the same amount of vaccum at the right RPM on the ecu and then let the ecu control it at anything below 0.78 throttle position. Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted November 19, 2016 Author Share Posted November 19, 2016 Thanks Chris. That makes it a lot clearer. Lots to learn, but getting there. Been spending a couple of days reading up on the diyautotune site I realise now the black box and plunger on a lot of motorcycle throttle bodies is an idle air control (IAC). Going to try and follow Mr Speedy's lead and eventually fit motorcycle bodies to the Vitesse. I have Triumph PI Bodies I was going to use but its going to work out a lot cheaper and probably more efficient using bike ones than converting the PI bodies to EFI. Hopefully design the inlets so that the throttle bodies mis the bulkhead. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Ignition control is one way - but has a smaller range than IAC valve and is bloody hard to set up to give a stable idle. Mine's got a bit dialled in but it functions more as a last resort anti-stall. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted November 26, 2016 Author Share Posted November 26, 2016 Hi all These came the other day. I'll put them to one side for now and get the car on the road with carbs. it gives me a chance to get everything else together and sorted first. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pomwah Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 Oooooh, pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 Like those. What is the donor? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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