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H beam con-rods - forged - seen these?


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#1 itiejim

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 11:34 PM

Anyone seen these?

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...2|39:1|240:1318

They certainly look well priced, anyone brave enough to buy some and see what they're like ::)



#2 DaveNotSoSideways

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 11:50 PM

Chinese huh. Land of slave labour and cheap production! Direct from manufactoring base I imagine.

What can you say. Maybe ask for a weight, they look meaty.BIG bolts and lots of extra material that could be slung off.

Check the feedback in a few weeks?!  ;)

Certainly cheap.

You pay 198UKP+VAT EACH for Carillo rods in the UK.

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GT is designing some Titanium ones atm, almost ready for production. These have been designed to go down the bore and make a 2.4 on a new crank; from a 2000cc engine! I didn't get all the details on this.

Probably under 1/2 the weight of steel, but as ever, not cheap for this stuff. Awesome potential though in a "racer".

#3 JohnD

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 11:57 PM

The eBay guy sells the same design for dozens of modern cars.  Inc Ferrari 308!

If yu want others experinece, try posting on sites that deal with those cars?

John

#4 tim_trinda

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 09:05 AM

They certainly look well priced, anyone brave enough to buy some and see what they're like ::)


Tempted but the auction is only for 4 rods.

#5 spitNL

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 05:34 PM

I have heard good things about these:
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http://www.pauter.com/exotica.htm
$860/562pounds for 4
$1290/843 pounds for 6
So more expensive than the ebay ones but cheaper than carillo.

#6 DaveNotSoSideways

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 05:53 PM

Check the last thread in the Saloon section.

#7 DaveNotSoSideways

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 06:06 PM

Suprised these companies haven't got into "cracked rods"...

Modern engines now come with 1 piece rods that have been "cracked" to make the end cap. Basically just snapped off.

Basically instead of a smooth area between the cap and body and a retaining tube etc the rods are "cracked" in half.

This gives a PERFECT immobile, fret free connection that cannot "wriggle"...Why cause if you crack something it will fit back together perfectly and give a MUCH stronger joint than a conventional compression joint also a MUCH greater effective surface area on the connection and improved strength...against/opposed to OLD school methods of a smooth compression jointing with some form of tube for location..

Stock production on Modern Fords etc.

#8 willcolumbine

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 08:54 PM

Just crack 'em and stick 'em together with JB Weld. Job done!  ;D

#9 Nick Jones

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 09:17 PM

Suprised these companies haven't got into "cracked rods"...

Modern engines now come with 1 piece rods that have been "cracked" to make the end cap. Basically just snapped off.

Basically instead of a smooth area between the cap and body and a retaining tube etc the rods are "cracked" in half.

This gives a PERFECT immobile, fret free connection that cannot "wriggle"...Why cause if you crack something it will fit back together perfectly and give a MUCH stronger joint that a convension compression joint also a MUCH greater effective surface area on the connection and improved strength...against/opposed to OLD school methods of a smooth compression jointing with some form of tube for location..

Stock production on Modern Fords etc.


Hmmm, powder forging...... interesting process, but is it really strong enough for the top line high strength stuff?

Nick



#10 DaveNotSoSideways

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 09:21 PM

I was studying a Ford rod down the engineering shop yesterday, I don't doubt it's as good as any other OE rod, same stuff? Just "cracked" ;D

#11 Nick Jones

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 09:36 PM

I'm not sure how many manufacturers powder-forge (sinter) their rods.  Toyota have been for some time (earlys 80's).

THis is quite interesting (ads are irritating though)

http://www.allbusine...t/155655-1.html

and this

http://www.epma.com/...SS HOMEPAGE.htm

and this

http://www.gknsinter...es/con_rods.pdf

It seems that the answer is 'lots' or even 'most'.  I think the reason that the specialists like Carillo etc don't do this is a0. the powder forging kit is a serious investment and B). Ford have patented the cracking process.  (Although b is odd as I think I remember seeing a video at school in the early 80s about powder forging which even mentioned cracking things, albeit not with rods....)

Nick

#12 DaveNotSoSideways

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 09:40 PM

Ya's learn's summink everyday dun ya  ;D

#13 Nick Jones

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 09:42 PM

Ya's learn's summink everyday dun ya  ;D


Everyday's a school day  ;D

Nick

#14 DaveNotSoSideways

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 09:48 PM

Wouldnt have it any other way!!!

#15 GT6 Mike

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 08:05 AM

Anyone know the weight of a standard rod without bolts, I am told these are 506g

#16 GT

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 08:16 AM

People could be in for a shock.
They probably don't fit down the bore.

It's extremely difficult to make a small rod that goes down a bore as small as 75mm, that's why they split them at 45 deg originally.
Same problem on the IMP motor

#17 GT6 Mike

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 01:30 PM

That wouldn't be right, somebody selling something that doesn't fit  ;)

Joking aside, I would like to think they have done some trial fitting.

Regarding weights, I found the weights for the rods fitted to my engine, they are 670g so quite a good saving at 506g (if they fit).
Think standard rods must be around the 700g mark. (Edit just read in Saloon section AT has them at 685g)

#18 GT

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 01:47 PM

Having already seen a few steel rods, probably our friend Steve has it right. PAUTER would be a co that goes to the trouble of ensuring they fit.

Seeing as that guy on ebay is selling rods like "one size fits all" for any make of car, I doubt very much he went to the trouble of checking they fit.

The big problem is;- if you fit a large bolt, then logically with that size of journal, and proper design THEY WON'T FIT, because quite simply there isn't room.....unless of course you bore it out to 80 like I did.
Even then it's a REALLY tight fit for a large bolt type rod.

Obviously I looked into this before adopting a different solution.

#19 DaveNotSoSideways

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 01:57 PM

Like they have a Triumph engine in China lol  ;) ;)

#20 GT6 Mike

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 02:23 PM

I have asked them if they will send a part over for trial fitting, I'll keep you informed.




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